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Post by Dungeon Warden on Oct 27, 2004 15:51:09 GMT -5
Since I'm here, I might as well talk about my game, Crown Of Order. I hope everyone gets a change to play my demo. I went to a lot of work to put in some extra little touches to give it that professional quality that I hope people will apreciate.
If you don't have a download device (i.e. X-port or Max Drive), then here is a summary of the demo:
A young mountaineer, who you name, lives in a town that is the current host of the crown games, help every four years. This year, a trial of champions is being help in a cave near the town. As the trial gets underway, a thief steals the crown and runs into the caves.
Since you are the only person left in town capable of surviving the trials, you go after the thief with your girlfriend, who is a naturalpathic healer.
After exploring the caves, you find the dead body of one of the champions. The trials are not suppost to be lethal, so how did the champion die? A sword wound suggests fowl play. But was it the thief, an other champion, or someone else that killed him? These questions are not answered in the demo and are part of a greater mystery that will play out throughout the final version of the game.
Besides the starting two characters, you can meet and join up with the other champions through part of the trials. There can only be one winner, so the champions will not work with each other for very long.
The Demo includes:
A customized default battle system, which lets you draw magic and cast it back at the enemy (a la FFVIII).
An archery mini game
A day/night clock with different events happening at night.
The starting town and first dungeon level - including a mid-boss battle.
Several puzzles and traps to work your way through.
The final game will include:
A customized menu system
More mini games
weather system
customized magic system (i.e. some characters have spells only they can use).
More fully develped combat system (fix draw magic so you can cast the spell on the same turn, allow characters to cast their personal spells in combat, add special abilities, bring more tactics into battles).
A mature, well developed story that lets the player get to know the different party members and care about the towns people.
If any one has any questions or comments, let me know.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Oct 28, 2004 0:07:04 GMT -5
This game looks to be very good. I played the demo and enjoyed it a lot. If you want to read what I thought about it based on my play through, click here. Since DW didn't post a link to the demo, you can find it here on the Pavilion's Demo page. I like your planned additions to the game, DW, as it seems that you will be fixing all the little things that I didn't like about the demo, as well as adding a lot of depth to the story. I'm interested in hearing more about your game as you progress further. Any projected season (year?) for completion? Keep us posted, Doan the Nado
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2004 1:14:46 GMT -5
Same. ;D
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Oct 28, 2004 8:46:29 GMT -5
Thanks for posting the link to the demo. That was kind of important information.
As to when I'll be done. Who knows. Since I'm going to school in the city (60 miles from home), I don't have much time to work on it. I have been working on details in my head and do have most of the story written, so really it is just a matter of sitting down at the PS2 and getting all the things I plan to do into the game and working properly.
I would really like to get the dungeon done for the pavilion contest and make a fake ending so it seems like a complete game. The full game will probably take two years to finish and will fill a memory card (i.e. three files).
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Post by Jugem on Oct 28, 2004 14:55:09 GMT -5
I would really like to get the dungeon done for the pavilion contest and make a fake ending so it seems like a complete game. lol! I think the plot that you've given so far is very promising. It's quite open-ended at this point, so I can only imagine the endless possibilites as the story develops. I'm curious also as to how the archery minigame plays. I'm currently unable to download your demo; is there any chance you could create a video preview? I'm very curious what you've come up with so far.
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Oct 28, 2004 15:18:17 GMT -5
I don't have any way of making a video, but maybe if you ask Doan nicely ;D he'll make one for you. Hey, Doan. Would it be possible for you to record some highlights of my game, including the battle system and archery mini game for people who don't have an X-port or Max Drive? Maybe you can add a spot on your website for information on my game as well. I'd make my own website but I'm too lazy busy. Thanks.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Oct 28, 2004 21:34:07 GMT -5
That sounds like a possibility. If you tell me exactly what you want me to do (you can do this in a PM if you want, like: start recording here... do this, do that, etc), it would make my job a lot easier. Then I don't have to worry about missing something that you consider important.
On that note, I have a pretty important announcement in the Announcements forum that pertains to this subject. Please check it out.
Glad to be of service to you,
Doan the Nado
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Oct 29, 2004 9:34:04 GMT -5
Let's see, how about:
Shot of the title screen shot of champions entering the cave (in the opening cut scene) shot of the hero and Sarah walking around town to the inn show the second floor of the inn appearing when the characters go upstairs show the hero going into archery range show a couple of targets being shot show party entering the cave show a battle with a random enemy - combat menu, draw magic, use magic, and use item End with the two statues coming to life and attacking the party
Hopefully, that won't be too long a video. If you can make it longer, add:
The town at night and the party trying to get into a closed store show the clinic both at day and at night show the party breaking down the door in the cave and the room appearing as they enter.
That should be enough to give people an idea of the scope of my demo.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Oct 29, 2004 15:41:18 GMT -5
Okay... I started to do all this stuff, and then ending up stopping with a video that was 18 minutes long. That is a bit too much, I was going into too much detail, I guess. I went to pause my video capture software, and the problem is that I can't pause recording, it just stops it altogether. I still have a VCR down here, along with that tape Jugem sent me, so I am going to record it first on a tape so that I can pause here and there (while waiting for time to elapse... to make it night, and also during random battles after fighting through a couple). I will then transfer it to my computer. Look for information on this demo later tonight. It shouldn't take me too long. Hope you'll be satisfied with what I come up with, Doan the Nado EDIT- Okay, minor problem. I don't have the remote for the VCR that I'm using, so I can't get it to switch to video inputs. So that idea is out. This is what I plan on doing (I just did something else and it took 20 minutes, too long): - Start recording as soon as game loads.
- Go through initial cutscene.
- At title screen, show the different options.
- Show opening cutscene.
- Walk around the entire town, briefly entering all buildings.
- During previous step, play the archery game, show the weapon/armor dealer, go to clinic, go to house and check drawer a couple times.
- Enter cave, obtain items at entrance, and walk to room with rusty door, fighting a couple battles along the way.
- During battles, use each available command at least once.
- Exit cave and proceed to inn, staying there.
- Exit inn and walk around town, checking out a few places that have changed.
- Return to inn.
Unfortunately, due to my inability to pause, I cannot end with the two statues coming to life. It will take me too long to get through the entire cave since I won't be able to pause during the random battles. I hope that's not too much of a disappointment.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Oct 29, 2004 19:26:04 GMT -5
All right, well, the video is complete. It's longer than I would've liked, but I already felt that I left a lot of the good parts of your demo out. I could probably trim it down to about 15 minutes, but 17 minutes will be okay, I guess. I have a bunch of updates that I'm working on for my new site, so I don't want to publish those changes to the internet yet. Instead, I am temporarily hosting your video on my old site. If I run out of bandwidth, I'm sorry. For now, your video can be viewed by clicking on the following link: doanthenado.tripod.com/files/TheCrownOfOrderDemo.wmvI wish I could have done a little better quality, but especially being on my old site, the file size is limited. All that's on that site now is your video, Jugem's video, and my redirecting homepage, and it all just barely fits. I can also make a web page for you on my site if you'd like. Give me any text you would like on it, as well as the images and I will create the page(s) for you. I'm not yet sure where this will fit in my site's new navigation structure, but I should be able to figure something out relatively soon. Enjoy the video! Doan the Nado
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2004 22:29:28 GMT -5
Veeeery impressive! The only negative thing'd be the "[] begins to attack...", "[] takes x damage...", etc., and maybe changing the character models to make them less default for the townspeople, and making more unique spell graphics. Otherwise, everything seems awesome! Oh yeah, as Doan was subtly hinting at, it'd be good if there was a menu command that skipped forward 1 or more hours. I remember in Brave Fencer Musashi I'd go "take naps" at the inn to pass forward time faster. This is probably a good idea (in my opinion) for anyone with a real-time system. Keep us updated!
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Post by Doan the Nado on Oct 30, 2004 0:59:04 GMT -5
Actually, I wasn't hinting at that at all, I was just trying to say that's why I was having trouble getting the video out. If you noticed, that's why I stayed at the inn twice. Each time, about 6-8 hours passed. It was 11 am the first time I stayed, and then it was 7 pm. I had to go sell a piece of armor to be able to afford to stay again, and then it was about 2 am.
I'm sorry I had to rush through some of the text stuff, but I figured the viewer could pause the video and read it, rather than using up unnecessary time in the video file.
Until next time,
Doan the Nado
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Post by WarDragon on Oct 30, 2004 10:20:53 GMT -5
that was a very good video one question how did you create your own shooting gallery
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Post by Jugem on Oct 30, 2004 16:10:40 GMT -5
Very nice Dungeon Warden! I'll start off with a little criticism. First off, I found it difficult to read a lot of the text that was displayed in your slightly transparent message box. It (obviously) occured when the message box was appearing over lighter backgrounds, such as the walls in the first room of the video. This might just be because of the video quality; maybe it's a lot more legible in the actual game. In any case, it's something to keep in mind.
There were also quite a few spelling errors in the early part of the video. I didn't notice any later on, but I wasn't paying too much attention to that. I know it's still early, and you probably haven't paid much attention to that yet. But make sure you recheck all the text at some point for proper spelling/grammar.
My last bit of criticism has to do with the choices you're able to make in the cave. For example, that green boulder-like object that you can climb over or cut through, or the door that you try to open by pushing the panel or by force. The reasons for taking damage don't always seem to be clear. Why does cutting through that boulder cause damage to you? The game says you cut the sporeball easily, so why is it that it damages you? I would suggest giving an explanation for it when it tells you you took damage. Such as, "while cutting through the sporeball, such and such happened which caused Lovalor and Sarah to take x points of damage." Or something along those lines.
Despite the above criticism, I really enjoyed your video. I'll start with the title screen. Love what you did there with the camera. Slowly panning around, and seamlessly dropping down and zooming in when you're about to start the game. Nice work.
The archery minigame also looked like a lot of fun. Animals crossing bridges and darting out from and behind pillars...again, nicely done. I can only assume it's as fun to play as it looks.
It's too early to get a grasp on how well your battle system will turn out, but it looks promising. The magic drawing aspect looks like it may keep battles interesting, and the battle interface is well done for the most part.
To sum it up, I think you've got a very promising project going Dungeon Warden. Looks like it is/will be very enjoyable. It's just the presentation that could be cleaned up a bit. Those issues don't really detract from the game a whole lot though (except for the hard to read text in the video, which might not even be a problem in the game). But I can't stress enough to look out for spelling/grammar mistakes. But all in all, great job!
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Oct 30, 2004 21:00:01 GMT -5
Wow! I have a video. It is a little garbled through.
To replay to Jugem's critique: Yes, the message boxes are much easier to read in the actual game. I'll have the spelling fixed by the next demo. It's hard to see in the video, but a cloud of gas surrounds you when you cut the spore ball. There is a pit on the otherside of the door. This is much clearer when you are playing the game.
Doan, maybe you forgot or never noticed, but the main character has his own bed he can sleep in for free anything he wants. The only reason to sleep at the inn is if you have other characters besides the two starting ones.
It was not easy. Lots of conflicting scripts caused a lot of slow downs and crashes to early versions of the archery range. In simplist terms - I created a master script that ran three other scripts. One script moved the enemies, one moved the crosshairs, and one shot the arrows and kept track of the score and arrows. Another script, in a special condition on the transparent party, ended the minigame when the player moved after running out of arrows or killing the last enemy. I also used the FPS trick that Liquid Snake Simulation stumbled upon and I perfected.
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Post by Jugem on Oct 31, 2004 15:16:02 GMT -5
Ahh, never noticed the cloud of gas or the pit. In any case, it might help to state what happened as well through text. That's obviously up to you though. Another comment I failed to make had to do with those "make a choice and feel the consequences" obstacles. To me, they feel like a cheap way to sometimes deal damage to the party. It's like flipping a coin, and if it comes up heads, deal a certain amount of damage. Again, I don't know if there are any clues to the outcomes of each choice in the actual game. But judging by the demo, it doesn't seem like there are any (I guess you could see the pit, although you wouldn't think that forcing the door open would mean flying off into the pit ). But at least give the player a way of knowing the correct choice to make. I'm not saying such clues should always be out in the open or easy to figure out, otherwise there's not much point in having the choice in the first place.
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Nov 1, 2004 16:50:39 GMT -5
I don't know. I think making people choose between two unknowns creates a feeling of suspense. Reading the choices carefully might give you a clue of what to do, but you still don't know for sure what will happen. None of the choices are fatal. In fact, because of a bug I can't fix, I made it so you can't die outside of combat.
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Post by Jugem on Nov 1, 2004 17:19:30 GMT -5
I guess that's another way of looking at it. Keep in mind, my comments are from an outside observer. If I were actually playing the game, my thoughts might be different. Maybe it would feel more like suspense rather than cheapness. Either way, the game still looks good.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2004 1:06:15 GMT -5
Possibly giving the player more than 2 choices and 2 effects will make it seem more like the player is the main character.
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Nov 2, 2004 9:39:58 GMT -5
Sure, but that's also a lot more work. I'd rather use an open system where the player can interact with the enviroment then give a long list of choices to make. I'll save the choices menu puzzles for events were there is only really two or three choices the player can make.
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Post by vespuleth on Nov 2, 2004 12:57:19 GMT -5
i totally disagree. i cant stand it when games do this. at no time in a game should a person have to choose between two unknowns. they should at least have some information as to what the outcome could be. just my two cents.
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Nov 2, 2004 15:36:18 GMT -5
I could understand being annoyed or upset if one choice meant instant death or forced you to do a section of a dungeon over again. But if it is just the difference between taking a little damage or getting by an area safely, what difference does it make what choice you make? Sure, if you alway make the wrong choice it would get pretty annoying, but logic should tell you what the right choice would be in most cases. I don't plan on putting too many of these types of puzzles in my game anyway.
More dangeous puzzles/ traps that can be found deeper in the dungeon will have writings or wall markings nearby to offer hints on what to do. These will be more obvious than coming to a closed door.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Nov 3, 2004 4:26:25 GMT -5
Sorry to interrupt this topic of discussion, but I have an important tidbit of info for you. Your game is now hosted on my www.doanthenado.com site, and it can be downloaded with the following link: www.doanthenado.com/files/TheCrownOfOrderDemo.wmvThe other link will work for about 3 more weeks, but after that, I'll be getting rid of that site. Just a heads up. We will now resume our regularly scheduled program...
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Draygone
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Post by Draygone on Nov 4, 2004 23:48:21 GMT -5
I don't really like that, either, how you could get damage as a result of not knowing what choice to make. Maybe if they aren't very frequent, I could tolerate them. But when I go through dungeons, I want to save as much HP and potions as I can, and that won't be too easy if half of my decisions make me lose HP (which of course would eventually mean having to use a potion), and the choices pop up real frequent.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Nov 5, 2004 17:31:20 GMT -5
When I played through it, I didn't think it was a problem at all. It was usually pretty obvious which choice to make, but even when it wasn't, the damage wasn't that big of a deal. You can find free herbs in your dresser drawer at home if you feel like looking through it, and the girl has a personal heal spell that takes up 0 MP. I personally liked the choices and would like to see them stay. You guys should check out the game yourselves and see what you think of it.
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