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Post by Jugem on Oct 18, 2004 15:14:37 GMT -5
(11/17) The links have now been fixed. (11/16) I've now got a playable demo available. Thanks Doan. Here they are (hopefully the links will be up on the main page as well soon): Note: Pressing [] -> Start will bring up the pause menu, where you can view the demo controls under "Tutorial." .xps: www.doanthenado.com/files/VanishedNightsDemo_XPS.zip.max www.doanthenado.com/files/VanishedNightsDemo_MAX.zip.xmem www.doanthenado.com/files/VanishedNightsDemo_XMEM.zip(10/18) Yet another place to post this. Here is a video demo of the beginning portions of my game, courtesy of Doan the Nado. EDIT: The link has now changed to the following: www.doanthenado.com/files/Vanished%20Nights%20Video%20Demo.wmvHere are some of my comments on it: Keep in mind this is still a demo of an early version of the game. Some things may still change, such as some of the dialogue or other details. The town will be more active (more people, etc.) for example. I included two rooms in the first dungeon; the entrance and the boss room. Although the two rooms are linked together in the video, they will not be in the actual game. Furthermore, the boss is incomplete. I included enough of the boss to give a rough idea of the boss battle, although I haven't yet completed the phase where you do damage to it (which isn't your typical "hack and slash to defeat" boss). And I haven't composed the boss music yet, which is why that room is silent. A couple more notes about the boss. Firstly, all of its attack animations aren't completed yet. Secondly, there are some "critters" that come out of the ground. The collision detection for them hasn't been implemented yet, so due to their random movement, they crawl over and beyond the walls and don't yet damage the player. And the ground opening up VFX doesn't quite match up with the critters crawling out of the ground. And finally, there are one or two instances of the boss flickering. Those will be cleaned up in the final game though.
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Post by Aaron on Oct 18, 2004 16:38:25 GMT -5
Whoa, this game looks good. I think you did well by choosing to use the Zelda style. Keep up the great work.
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Post by vespuleth on Oct 18, 2004 16:43:34 GMT -5
jugem, im very impressed.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Oct 18, 2004 16:55:16 GMT -5
I'll post what I wrote to him in an e-mail:
I'm breathless! That is simply amazing work! I loved your custom songs: they sounded great. I'm glad you took that stupid default X-menu out of the game while still allowing controller vibration to be turned on. What you did with lighting, especially in the bedroom, was amazing. And once the Zelda-style fighting started, your game's promise was very apparent. I can't wait to see what you do with this game. Nice little touches like the fountain and the bomb animation make this game what it is.
You better finish this!
Doan the Nado
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Post by WarDragon on Oct 18, 2004 17:25:55 GMT -5
Yes i really want to play even if i have to send u my memory card to play it i really want to play.
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Post by Jugem on Oct 19, 2004 13:54:16 GMT -5
Yes i really want to play even if i have to send u my memory card to play it i really want to play. Haha! If when this game is completed I still don't have a means of putting it online, I'll try to find someone to send my memory card to to get it online. So no worries there. If you mean that you'd be unable to download it, then I suppose you could send me your memory card. But that's still quite a ways away.
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Post by Jugem on Nov 3, 2004 14:58:47 GMT -5
I went back to working on the first boss a few days ago (I hadn't touched that boss since I completed the video preview), and ran into a whole mess of problems relating to the VFX. VFX will finish running, even if a content script is executing. So if the game is paused, the VFX will have finished early, and the boss will briefly disappear. Now I've solved that problem (even temporarily disabling the square button for a couple brief moments). There were quite a few "animation transitions" to look out for. But now I'm having problems getting the bomb to take care of those bugs properly. It works fine when I only check one enemy's coordinates, but as soon as I check more than one enemy... And I've been using so many scripts to implement things, that this game is becoming a whole complicated mess (albeit an organized mess). Then I look at Nash, who seems like he took a lot of shortcuts. I haven't been able to play his demo, but I'd guess that through his simpler approach, he has gotten a lot more accomplished/working. So I'm at a point where I've got to look at my project and wonder where it's headed. This problem I have with the bomb is one that could potentially also happen with most of the other items and magic. Hopefully I'll be able to figure it out fairly quickly and get back on track. But it's really driving me crazy right now. Edit: Because of the frustration I've had with the above problem, I've started thinking about creating an epic rpg. I've already had a lot of ideas over the past little while, and I think this could turn into something special. It would be a lot simpler to create than Vanished Nights, as creating a good real-time action combat system has been becoming very complicated. Creating a complex cbs would probably be a breeze in comparison. Anyway, my question to you all is would you guys prefer to play an action/adventure (namely, Vanished Nights), or an epic rpg? If I can get this bug sorted out soon, than I'll probably continue with Vanished Nights. But I have been thinking about going in the other direction. That would definitely give me less nightmares at night. I'd hate to have come so far with Vanished Nights only to start another game though.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Nov 3, 2004 17:44:48 GMT -5
Well, from experience, having played a few different demos, I personally liked the adventure ones better. It's something different with RPGM2, and I think it can be done rather successfully. I thought your video looked great, but I will assume that an epic created by you will be subject to the same high quality standards.
In summary, I really don't think you should give up on your current project. It might be a good idea to create something different for a while, but certainly don't delete it. No matter what kind of game you create, I will upload it for you and most certainly play it.
Do whatever your heart desires,
Doan the Nado
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Post by NASH7777 on Nov 3, 2004 18:49:59 GMT -5
Nice work, I'm glad another is implementing the Zelda Style game! Oh and I heared Blood Knight is working on one too! I wish you the best of luck on it. I really did and am enjoying my Zelda Game, making and playing. And I'm planning to add a 2 person vs Battle! turn based of course....but still very cool.
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Post by vespuleth on Nov 3, 2004 19:24:34 GMT -5
honestly, im more of an epic fan. adventure games get to be too much of a straight forward hack and slash, although ive seen a few w/ gripping gameplay and story line. i just think itd be harder to make an action game that held my attention, and was great in every area of gaming (control, replayability, good story, addiction level, et al) then it would be an epic. it seems the creator just has more control in a traditional rpg type game.
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Nov 4, 2004 8:21:14 GMT -5
Personally, I like both forms of game play - if they are done right. Since you are good at creating good quality games, either will be fine with me. As long as the story is interesting and the puzzles are not fustrating, I will enjoy it.
If you give some details on how you are doing the bomb thing, I might be able to work out a solution if you want some help with your game.
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Post by Jugem on Nov 4, 2004 15:50:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the encouragement guys. I was getting really frustrated because something was going wrong, and it didn't (and still doesn't) make any sense. I traced through the program line by line multiple times and just couldn't see what the problem was. Anyway, I deleted the bomb blast collision detection scripts and started them again from scratch, this time taking the opposite approach. For anyone that cares, the way I did it earlier was to check each square/tile of the blast area, and see if any enemies (or the player, etc.) were occupying that square. The way I did it now was to just look at each enemy once and determine if it was in the blast area. Probably a more efficient approach, and it works great now. I'll keep going on Vanished Nights, as this is the project I'm most excited about. The rpg can wait. I guess I just ranted out of frustration. adventure games get to be too much of a straight forward hack and slash, although ive seen a few w/ gripping gameplay and story line. Vanished Nights isn't your typical hack and slash game. In fact, I'm kind of leaning against including too much hack and slash action. I'm trying to put more of an emphasis on story and puzzle solving rather than flat out action. There will be some action mind you, but more of a focus on using your brain. As long as the story is interesting and the puzzles are not fustrating, I will enjoy it. For the most part, I want the puzzles to make sense, and so they shouldn't be too frustrating. There will be some tips available in the game as well. However, there will (hopefully) be some tough puzzles as well. Puzzles that require more thought, but are still fair.
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Post by Jugem on Nov 8, 2004 15:52:04 GMT -5
Finally finished the first boss, at least scripting- and VFX-wise. Still need to finish composing the boss music, but that should only take another day or two. I can't believe I spent a whole week working on it; the scripting for it became so complicated with the collision detection, animation (VFX) transitions, etc. I'm thinking of sending Doan my memory card with a demo of the game (I've sent you an email regarding that Doan). Basically what's shown in the video, but with the completed boss. The main purpose of that is to get some of the recent demos back to me so I can play them. If that happens, hopefully I'll have the demo up soon.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Nov 8, 2004 23:59:24 GMT -5
Sounds awesome. From the look of the video alone, I can't wait to play this game. Good luck with your musical composition.
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Post by Jugem on Nov 16, 2004 13:34:04 GMT -5
I now have a playable demo available (links are in the first post). For the most part, it's the same as the video demo. However, the "puzzle room" in the shop is of course now playable. And the first dungeon boss is now finished and playable as well. Here are the main controls for the demo (also listed in the pause menu under Tutorial): X: Sword Attack L1/R1: Rotate Camera [] + X: Sword Attack (same as just 'X') [] + START: Pause Menu [] + L1: Bomb Item [] + R1: Ice Magic [] + Left/Right/Up/Down: Face that direction (without taking a step) Hope you all enjoy it.
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Post by Jugem on Nov 17, 2004 16:15:34 GMT -5
The links weren't working as I posted them earlier, but they are now fixed (first post).
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Post by Doan the Nado on Nov 17, 2004 16:23:24 GMT -5
I had one disappointment when I played your demo: I solved the puzzle (took a long time, because I didn't realize the blocks between the spaces could be pushed), but the treasure chest had nothing. NOTHING! ;D That's okay, I got over it when I realized it was a demo.
This demo was awesome, albeit a bit incomplete. It was everything I expected it to be. Your battle scripting was flawless, from what I could tell, as I didn't encounter any bugs. I found the battle against the boss to be somewhat difficult, but I'm sure there is something that has to do with the spot on his chest changing colors. I just hope in the game's final version you somehow work some kind of hint in as to how to defeat him.
But yeah, everything was as good as the video made it appear to be. The camera movement and rotations during cutscenes was cool (you may want to make the opening one cinematic, too, like the boss one is), and the game's atmosphere was consistent. Great job on the custom music, including the boss music. Completion of this game may be sometime down the road, but I'm already looking forward to it.
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Post by Jugem on Nov 17, 2004 16:34:05 GMT -5
I had one disappointment when I played your demo: I solved the puzzle (took a long time, because I didn't realize the blocks between the spaces could be pushed), but the treasure chest had nothing. NOTHING! ;D That's okay, I got over it when I realized it was a demo. Heh, yeah, I guess you solved that puzzle for nothing! You will get rewarded there in the actual game, but it's something that I didn't get done for the demo. This demo was awesome, albeit a bit incomplete. It was everything I expected it to be. Your battle scripting was flawless, from what I could tell, as I didn't encounter any bugs. I found the battle against the boss to be somewhat difficult, but I'm sure there is something that has to do with the spot on his chest changing colors. I just hope in the game's final version you somehow work some kind of hint in as to how to defeat him. Thanks. And yeah, the beginning portion is still very incomplete. Still lots I need to do there. Were you able to beat the boss at all? There will be a hint given in the dungeon as to how to beat the boss. I didn't want to mention this, because it would make the boss fight probably almost too easy if you knew the hint and the fact that it applied to the boss. But if you want the hint, I can PM it to you. But yeah, everything was as good as the video made it appear to be. The camera movement and rotations during cutscenes was cool (you may want to make the opening one cinematic, too, like the boss one is), and the game's atmosphere was consistent. Great job on the custom music, including the boss music. Completion of this game may be sometime down the road, but I'm already looking forward to it. I took RPGMProgrammer's advice and focused some attention on the camera for the boss fight. I intend to go back to the beginning portion at some point and do the same. Glad you enjoyed the demo, and if you haven't beaten the boss already, I included a bit of (hopefully) amusing text at the end.
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Post by Jugem on Dec 2, 2004 13:54:27 GMT -5
I've just finished an AI routine last night for one of my more common enemies. And unlike Nash's (sorry Nash all-out aggressive AI, where all of the enemies will all come right after Link when he enters the map, the AI I implemented is a lot more interesting. If the enemy comes close to the player, it will briefly chase after him at a quicker speed. If the player avoids this chase for a few moments, the enemy will go back to wandering around slowly (and randomly). After a few more moments have passed, it will once again chase the player if it is close enough. I've also got some much more complex AI routines planned for some of the bosses, so Vanished Nights is really starting to come along in the AI department.
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Post by doyleman on Dec 2, 2004 20:00:07 GMT -5
Grrr! winzip isn't working! i wanna play!!!! can anyone with a max drive or max memory please down load it, and put it on the site where neonash's game demos are, i don't wonna miss out on a cool game!
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Post by Doan the Nado on Dec 3, 2004 4:08:40 GMT -5
Sorry, but I have neither.
I like the sound of your AI. I found that the spiders, although they moved randomly, were still worthy enemies. Your boss was a bit too predictable, but I know that's a consequence of VFX.
I finally beat it! With the tip, it was a bit easier, and in fact, too easy. One thing that might make it more interesting (which I think you are already going to do, as it relates to that vulnerability thing) is make it so that the method that is currently used to defeat him simply makes him vulnerable to sword attacks, so that you still have to go up to him and hit him. As it is now, once you know the trick, you don't even have to go near the boss.
I looked through some of your scripts and VFX and I was amazed. It all looked like a lot of work, and it makes me even more appreciative when I play your game. One thing that I loved was the way that you used VFX text to make things. I'm not sure that anyone else even considered that, but it adds a lot more to what you can do with the Editor.
One tip so that you avoid running out of memory is to try to make your scripts a little more efficient. Variable changing commands actually take up a sizable amount of memory, so in the camera rotating script, for example, it would conserve quite a bit to put the Data command at the top, like this:
Camera = Camera + 1 If Camera = 8 Camera = 0 Condition End
That will knock out 6 Data commands, each worth about 40 Mem. The If command also costs 40 Mem, but you're still looking at saving 200 Mem per script. If you do that with both of them, you'll save 400.
That may not sound like much, but doing little things like that with all the scripts can seriously cut down the memory usage, perhaps even enough (in the end) to have room for a whole other dungeon. Of course, if you plan on requiring more than one game file, anyways, all of that is inconsequential.
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Post by Jugem on Dec 3, 2004 14:53:40 GMT -5
Your boss was a bit too predictable, but I know that's a consequence of VFX. Well, VFX can be used to create unpredictable bosses, but I want my bosses for the most part to have some kind of pattern to them. Sort of an "old-school" feel. And since this is the first boss, I wanted it to be a little on the easy side. Most of the difficulty for this boss is in trying to figure out how to beat it. Congrats! I wonder how many people would figure this out if I did what you suggest. It's an interesting idea, one which I wasn't planning on doing. I know the boss might be too easy once you know how to beat him, but how many first bosses are ever difficult? Rest assured, the bosses will get more difficult as the game progresses. And the final few bosses will hopefully present a sizeable challenge. Who knows, I may still modify that boss like you suggested, if I feel like going back through those scripts and figuring out what I did there earlier. Thanks for the kind comments. I remember RPGProgrammer used text to create the face in one of his VFX characters, so I'm not the first. Thanks for the advice. I haven't really paid attention to conserving memory yet. I go by the design philosophy of getting something working first, and cleaning it up later. And I haven't done the "cleaning up" yet. So if memory becomes a problem, that's when I'll go back and try to save a bit of memory here and there. And I'm almost certain that I'll need at least two game files anyway, or even three, due in large part to the large amount of memory that the VFX bosses use. I definitely want it to all fit on one memory card though.
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Dec 3, 2004 21:46:47 GMT -5
As an interesting side note, one of my assignments as school is to create images using only the letters T, Y, P, E in any size or font. We had to look at the letters and play around with how they fit together and how their shapes can create new shapes. You don't really think about letters as shapes until you have to study them closely.
Jugem, I liked your boss. The spiders kept him from being easy even when you know the secret. I look forward to seeing the rest of your game.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2004 2:28:55 GMT -5
For saving memory you should go look at my "My Most Recent Creation Tips" topic in my Paladin board. It'll help a ton (for me about 25,000 or something like that, a ton).
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Post by Jugem on Dec 5, 2004 15:20:24 GMT -5
Sounds like a fun course DW. Glad you enjoyed the boss as well. And I'll be sure to check out that topic, William. Even though I've probably already read it.
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