whataface2
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Post by whataface2 on Sept 15, 2008 21:06:25 GMT -5
I've had RPG Maker 2 for about two years now. I have a basic understanding of the game, but my major weakness is making balanced monsters. I have used the compare option in the monster editor, but I'm still having problems. I'm using the preset monsters that are level one and my party members are all at level 1. When my party levels up the enemy does no damage to them. I have tried tweaking the levels of both party and my monsters but I either make them too easy to kill or too hard. Any advice? Thanks in advance for your help.
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raithwall
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Post by raithwall on Sept 15, 2008 21:31:15 GMT -5
The 0-1 damage problem: You have to branch into the battle formula to deal with this. I have it set up so that:
1) any attack that fails due to 100 resist never does any damage
2) any attack that does 1 or less damage does 1-3 damage.
This will be helpful so that attack and defense isn't so cut and dry.
At the end of the battle formula where total damage is calculated you can make a branch that if total damage is 1 or less, then total damage = 1-3, or whatever.
Balancing is tricky, and a good time to do it is when your giving your game a testplay after everything else is done.
Expect to play out boss battles 20 times before your completely satisfied, that is if you want them to be challenging but not too hard.
I use the enemy battle variables to replace their stats so that the enemies can level up with the party. That way I only have to find the correct formula and then all enemies will fall into place, with slight variance of 1 or 2 to determine types that are better fighers and types that are better mages. Also, I'm not bothered by limitations such as wanting a slime in a level 40 dungeon but the slime is a level 1 monster.
To see more download New Game + which has this done and all the other boring work. The monster stats are slightly better then the party, but the party has equipment to bridge the gap and make them stronger.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2008 22:31:59 GMT -5
One thing you can do to help is use bigger numbers. Instead of the party's HP being in the 30s it could be in the 300s. This should help with what you said, "When my party levels up the enemy does no damage to them." Instead of the enemies (for example) doing 5 damage at equal level and 0 damage at a lower level, they could do 50 at equal level and 45 at a lower level. I do this: 200 HP for all party members, first enemies deal between 3 to 30 damage depending on their action (attack, magic, etc.) and which member they're targeting.
You could also just use a Chrono Cross level-up system (auto level-up for whole party in the event's script after each boss fight, and otherwise level doesn't change) or no level-up system (what I did, no leveling up at all). I've found having no level-up system to be very helpful. My equipment also only effects statistics a little bit, so if the player messes up they're not at that much of a disadvantage.
Otherwise, it's just a lot of test-playing. Over the past week, I've played through my (so far) 4-hour game 3 whole times trying to balance the enemies well. It takes a while, but makes the experience for others much better. Also, I'd suggest intentionally playing poorly for this (missing items/equipment, using the wrong moves/tactics for fights, etc.).
gl
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whataface2
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Post by whataface2 on Sept 16, 2008 9:07:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the help. I'll have to try out both ideas to see which works best in my game. But I think leveling up after a boss battle might be the best right now for my skill level of RPG Maker 2. I never really used battle formula, but I have a general idea how to use script branching.
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raithwall
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Post by raithwall on Sept 16, 2008 9:33:45 GMT -5
If lots of HP is what you want, great, but don't feel too afraid to get into scripting. All I'm saying is its easier to make one branch condition at the very end of script then change the stats of every character and enemy.
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whataface2
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Post by whataface2 on Sept 16, 2008 22:28:52 GMT -5
I do think that your way would be better for my game raithwall. It is I just get a little nervous working with the battle system. Battles scripts are my main weakness in the game. But the only way I'm going to learn them is by using them.
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whataface2
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Post by whataface2 on Sept 18, 2008 21:06:33 GMT -5
Well I finally got some time to work on the game. I tired to make a script to level up my monsters. But I'm doing something wrong. Here is the script:
Data: Member Info load Script Branch Condition Member number = 3 Script Branch Sort Variable Level Script Branch Apply if = 2 Script branch Condition Variable Unit Number = 6 Data Variable Max Hit points + 100 Data Variable Hit points + 100 Battle Substitute Variable for Target Script branch to end
I'm trying to get the monsters to level up when the main character level up.
I have put this script in both the Battle Victory and Level Up scripts. Am I going about this all wrong?
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raithwall
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Post by raithwall on Sept 18, 2008 22:00:44 GMT -5
It doesn't work that way. You need to make a custom indirect effect with no options, or call the script in enemy appear. This script will make his stats = his battle variables at the start of battle. Note that this creates a lot of other issues, like having to give xp and gold based on his level, and changing around the skill formula and magic formula to scale because he'll be casting the same low level spells for the entire game. Its a pretty complex change so don't use it unless you comfortable with it.
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raithwall
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Post by raithwall on Sept 18, 2008 22:46:47 GMT -5
Make the Following:
Indirect Effects: Enemy Level Up (set to custom just link to event) Events: Enemy Level Up Scripts: Enemy Level Up Variables: Active Level Party Level Monster Level Max Level XP RECIEVED GOLD RECIEVED Repeat Count Flags: Boss Flag, Enemy Level Up
Set Party Level = level in the level up script whenever a member gains a level. Mine sets it to the level of the main character, which I feel works best.
1) Script - Enemy Level Up
Flag enemy leveled on Condition - Boss flag is off Active level = Party Level Condition End
Monster Level = Active level Condition Monster Level is higher then Max Level Condition Boss Flag is off Monster Level = Max Level Condition End Condition End
Battle substitute attribute for variable Max Hp = battle variable 1 X Monster Level Max MP = battle variable 2 X Monster Level Strength = battle variable 3 X Monster Level (Do this for every stat) Battle Substitute Variable for Attribute
Boss Flag should be turned on before any boss fight. The way this system is set up you can make a normal enemy into a boss by raising the active level. Boss flag can also be used to prevent running away.
2) Set each enemy with the indirect effect in enemy advanced. Also set the enemy battle variables to what you want. I suggest making the enemies gain 1 point more in every stat then party members so that the party has to buy equipment to bridge the gap or make them stronger.
Note that when the party surprises the enemy the enemies stats haven't changed yet. So set every enemy to 9999 HP and remember they have no defense until its their turn and the script is set. You could call the enemy level up script on enemy appear, but then you can't put normal enemies and bosses who don't use the system in the same unit.
I also suggest giving the enemies very high intellect and using low rate spells, because whether high lv or low lv they are using the same spells. You really need to edit the magic formula so that intellect has a greater effect and rate has a lesser effect. Just look for the temp variable they use for direct rate and intellect. Raise this temp variable by more then they raise. I suggest x5.
3) Make the following changes to preset script: enemy defeated at the very beginning of the script.
Repeat branch: member order is less then member total Data change to member order Data member info load Repeat Count = 1 Condition - Flag Enemy Leveled is On Repeat branch - Repeat count is same or less then Active level Give exp Give Gold GOLD RECIEVED = GOLD RECIEVED + variable 21 money recieved. XP RECIEVED = XP RECIEVED + Variable 20 exp recieved Repeat Count = Repeat Count +1 Repeat Branch End Condition End Member Order = Member Order +1 Repeat Branch End
Now in the lower part of the script where it displays money recieved and exp recieved, change this to display GOLD RECIEVED AND XP RECIEVED. This is done so you see accurate numbers.
The exp and money you get from the enemy do not level with him. So we give them to each member based on his number of level. Note that class XP can only be given once, so a level 10 enemy with 10 xp will give 100 xp but only 10 counts as class xp.
Mine version of this script also has another branch in there so that members who are lower then the main characters level get double exp. This is helpful if you have a lot of characters and one stable main character.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2008 23:59:02 GMT -5
You can also just keep track of where the player currently is (which dungeon) and upgrade their stats in the Enemy Appear script. That's what I did and it worked out pretty well. Instead of having to alter the enemies' stats for every main character level-up, you just have to alter their stats for every dungeon. This will make it where leveling-up still helps the player to win battles while also allowing you, the game maker, to re-use enemies a lot.
I also switch their stats into the Battle Variables. It sounds like that'll be a necessity for altering the enemies' stats.
I was thinking about this, and another thing you could do is what the Suikoden games do. Basically, each level-up takes approximately 10 times the experience to level-up than the previous level-up did. I'll just run some numbers to show you what that results in:
Level 2 = 10 experience to level-up Level 3 = 100 experience to level-up Level 4 = 1000 eperience to level-up Level 5 = 10000 experience to level-up Level 6 = 100000 experience to level-up
So if a party member was gaining about 10 experience from every regular fight in the first dungeon, they'd essentially be unable to reach Level 4, and that would pretty much keep them at Level 2 or 3.
The next dungeon could then have regular fights that give out about 100 experience and the party members would essentially be unable to reach Level 5 and be in a Level 3-4 range.
Or, if you wanted wider gaps betwen each dungeon's levels you can make (for example) the second dungeon regular battles give out about 1000 experience points. This would keep the party from reaching Level 6 and keep them at Level 4 and 5.
The end-result is knowing almost exactly what level the party members will be at. This should then help you to balance the enemies with the party members in a similar way to the Chrono Cross level-up system. What I also like about this is that it makes low-leveled members catch up in levels real quickly.
raithwall's ideas are good too. Whatever you choose, I'm sure it will turn out good. gl
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whataface2
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Post by whataface2 on Sept 19, 2008 9:34:23 GMT -5
Thanks Poopiness ad Raithwall. I'll give both a try and see which one I can get to work. I'm trying to get a better understanding of the battle system and having example scripts to guide me is very helpful.
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raithwall
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Post by raithwall on Sept 19, 2008 10:02:37 GMT -5
His is essentially the same thing, except mine uses the max level variable which can be set in your enter map script and avoid some unnecessary sorting.
But I will add if you use his idea to have only a few levels, perhaps with significant hp gains, you can probably avoid having to mess with magic/skill formulas.
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whataface2
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Post by whataface2 on Sept 23, 2008 20:36:31 GMT -5
OK, I guess I don't understand RPG Maker 2 as well as I thought. I have spent many hours trying to get the enemy level up script to work. No such luck. But I think I have found a way around this. But if I remove the section in Enemy Defeated script that controls the party leveling up and set it up so that I have a script that will level up the party when I want them to. From what I read I should be able to do this with the script commands in the Member - Basic info section. I'll try it to night to see if it will work. I want to thank you guys for all the help you have given me. If it wasn't for this message board and the Pav. I don't think I would ever have stuck with this game for this long.
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raithwall
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Post by raithwall on Sept 23, 2008 21:19:56 GMT -5
Even after three years with it, theres still occassionaly something new to learn.
Did you use the scripts I posted? Or you could post the scripts you made and what their connected to and I'll try to pinpoint the problem. Sometimes the script is sound and theres something else occuring somewhere thats making a problem and it can be tricky to pinpoint.
The enemy level up is not something you desperately need. I got to a point where I enjoyed the challenge of learning the scripting system and accomplishing unique feats with it.
Why are you having issues with leveling up the party? At one point I tried having it so that you had to report to class trainers before you gained class ranks, but it failed horribly.
Be careful here, I don't think you can change how the level up works it always occurs when XP is exceeded, the after battle scripts give the xp and gold from the monster and the level up script doesn't raise the level, it simply informs the player that the level has been increased and shows what was gained, so I don't follow where you're having problems and what you're trying to do here.
How ever you wish to proceed I'll do what I can to help. This is premature, but I'd enjoy it if one day we got to exchange games.
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whataface2
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Post by whataface2 on Sept 24, 2008 21:40:32 GMT -5
Oops, I guess I didn't make myself too clear. My party is leveling up fine. For some reason I couldn't get the script you gave me to work. I did however figure out how to handle the problem. This is how I'm going to do it.
Control Party Level
Go to game and then to party members. From there select your party member and select Advanced Under the tab of Directing select Battle end and set the script to none.
Next you want to change the Enemy Defeated script:
Remove the following: 011 - SB Variable (EXP Received) =+1 012 - Text Content: Variable: Display (EXP Received) Digits no fixed 013 - Text Message: 'Point of' 014 - Text Content Menu text: Display (Experience) 015 - Text Message: Received 016 - Script: Condition end 017 - SB Variable (EXP Received) => +2 018 - Text Content Variable: Display (EXP Received) Digits not fixed. 019 - Text Message 'Points of' 020 - Text Content: Menu text: Display (experience) 021 - Text Message: Received 022 - Script: Condition End
Now make a new script called: To Level Party Up
SFX: Victory Message: Stating who leveled up Then go to Party - member - basic info Level +1 Experience +20 Then go to Party - member - attributes Max HP +10 Max MP +10 Str +5 AGI + 3 DEF +6 INT +8 Luck +4
(You'll want to do this for each party member) If you want a member to learn an ability then just select ability from the menu.
I've tested this several times and it has worked.
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raithwall
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Post by raithwall on Sept 25, 2008 5:57:35 GMT -5
Well if thats what you want. I don't really see the point of doing what the system already does yourself. With what you've done I think you'll have to sort level for each member and pick abilities you want them to learn, another thing the game system does on its own. I guess I'm just saying theres enough to do in RPGM2 without having to do whats already done for you.
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whataface2
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Post by whataface2 on Sept 26, 2008 9:21:00 GMT -5
I found a simpler way to do this.
Member: Experience +20 Script Call: Level up Button Push Constant wait Clear Message (Do the same script for each level)
The only problem is if someone gains an ability. It then announces that all the members gain the same ability, when in reality they all gained different abilities. Not a really big problem. I'll just have to enter abilities separately.
I understand what you are saying raithwall. I know what I'm doing sounds silly and redundant. But it works.
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