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Post by NASH7777 on Dec 17, 2004 11:47:40 GMT -5
This will probably be my next game. I've already started drafting for it. Basically you'll be able to walk around wherever you are and cast spells etc... And I'll have it so you don't have to press square then another button for things. The controls will be something like this : (subject to change) Triangle-attack;interact O-cancel;run(hold) X-confirm;menu []-cast spell/ability R1-L1- Change camera R2- next spell (ex fire,blaze,pheonix) L2- previous spell R3- next spell type (ex fire-water-electric) L3- previous spell type Start- activates menu Select- Next spell class (ex Black,White,Blue magic)
The spells will be classed like this: Black Magic(class)-Fire(type)-Blaze(spell) or Green(class)-Grow(spell) [for if there is no types in a class]
Most spells will need to charge for a second or two, so you have your spell selected w/ shoulder buttons (will display on screen) then hit square. It will begin charging and when its done an icon will apear indicating so. Then you hit square again and it will cast it. You can run around and do whatever when your charging a spell, but only one spell can be charging at a time.
I plan on using the default menu system, as I plan on utilizing many items in the game that just may do any little thing in the game. Like poison will wilt a plant so you can burn it (this will only need to be done when you first learn fire magic, as later fire spells are obtained you'll be able to burn it without wilting it.)
I have a very strategic plan for making the enemy AI very different, I'll have enemies that chase you...then if they get low run away etc.... Also I won't have the E1,E2 etc... for enemies, every enemy will be a unique event. I believe I can incorporate this still witha little script I think will work.
I also have quite a bit of story planned out so yeah.... But I will finish my Zelda game before I even begin.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Dec 17, 2004 16:45:47 GMT -5
Sounds pretty sweet. A real time spell system is a great idea. I hope you can add an option to the DMS so that the player can put the spells in whatever order they want. It might get difficult to quickly cycle through the spells in a tight spot... The controls sound pretty good and I'm sure your enemy AI will be great.
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Dec 17, 2004 21:20:27 GMT -5
This game sounds interesting. I look forward to seeing what you do with it. Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2004 2:02:53 GMT -5
Yeah, it does sound interesting. Maybe though you ought to not make the player have to switch type and class of spells, but rather just cycle through them left or right till they get to the one they want. This'd be much easier for the player, and would eliminate the need to use R3 and L3, thus allowing for people to do everything with a PS1 controller (which I always prefer personally but it's up to you). I also really like Doan's idea of being able to change the order, especially because they can only have one set at a time, so they'd want to be able to switch between a good attack and a heal often and quickly during normal and boss fights. It sounds very cool, and I like how since they can be combined in different ways for tasks and puzzles and they're not common Zelda tools (no offense intended) that the puzzles etc. can be harder and different.
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Post by NASH7777 on Dec 18, 2004 9:09:44 GMT -5
(change: I'll have R3 L3 change class and select change type, being that only there are a few classes that use types and there won't be many of them, so you won't need anything to go back a type with select)
Actually it will be easier w/ the Class,Type,Spell thing I believe. Let's say your on black magic Fire Blaze. Okay you need to use Cure. Well that's white so you click R3 once and now your on cure. It will bring you to whatever last spell and class you were with white magic. Now let's say you want to go back to Black. Click L3 once and your back to blaze since that is what you were on last for black magic. But you want your Ice spell so you click select once and your at your last ice spell you used. It will be simple, I'll have variables that keep track of all the spells in every class and type that you last used for easy find. Then the common spells like cure will just almost all be a click away.
The spells will be ordered with most common by most common. As Black Magic will be by White Magic. And Green magic may be with blue or something. I might have these be reorderable as Doan said but I'll have to see how I have it set up when I start the game.
There of course will be interesting and cool spells all the way through. I have most the classes kinda made in my head, but I don't want to spoil all the suprises for you....and yet I do...lol Too exciting. I'll just give a cool example, Green Magic-N/A-Plant: Produces a plant in front of you. Can burn it or do whatever to it. Also a little water magic may cause it to grow....and now you have a vine :-)
All sorts of creative stuff will be in there like that, also think Yellow magic "Summons", okay I've said enough for now...and heck I haven't even created it so who knows?
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Post by Jugem on Dec 20, 2004 19:07:41 GMT -5
I agree, it sounds interesting. Do you plan for this to be like your Zelda game? Or is it more action-oriented or story-oriented? In other words, how does this game play?
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Post by NASH7777 on Dec 20, 2004 19:40:02 GMT -5
There will be a distinct difference in flow of these games. Zelda is more puzzle-dungeon based, while Mana Craft will be much more story-environment orientated. The game will have many people throughout that will be reguliar ppl. The environment will hopefully be a main interest in this game as I hope no item will be placed with Object Placement, but all events and everything interactive in as many ways as possible. A simple plant could be burnt, grown, taken, moved, thrown, etc... Also the "mana" part I hope will play alot with the environment along with your items. With endless spells such as levitate, to float an object, or Gust to blow it back. I hope to spend much time on each and every item. At times you may just unlock a single room or area but within that room there could be 100+ things you could do! I'm thinking maybe also having other party members running around with you, that you can control the actions of and stuff would add a lot too. Such as: Follow, search, stay, join, cast, leave, etc...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2004 2:07:14 GMT -5
That sounds very, very cool, but also very tedious, so gl, if anyone here can do it it's probably you.
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Post by NASH7777 on Dec 21, 2004 8:30:35 GMT -5
Yes it will be very tedious and will be a real mess if I don't do it right. I'll have to set up standards in everything before I begin so it doesn't get crazy. I hope to make all the spells first, then in all the items/enemies I can set up what they do. This way I won't add a spell later and have to go back through every event and add what it does to it. I'm sure I'll have most all of the spells, objects, enemies, status effects etc... all drafted even before I begin the game in any way or form.
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Post by vespuleth on Dec 21, 2004 14:03:04 GMT -5
this game sounds vvery ambitious. good luck. and yes, id advise that you went through and did some very detailed planning first.
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Post by The zoradude on Dec 21, 2004 15:11:10 GMT -5
Hey does this have any thing to do with the Mana series by Square?
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Post by NASH7777 on Dec 21, 2004 17:04:09 GMT -5
Hey does this have any thing to do with the Mana series by Square? Nope, all story and characters come from what's lying around in my head. There will be you, the first caster of mana who can wield the power of multiple classes. And there will be the mecha, those of modern mechanics and society. Mana vs Mecha. Ooooh what if I made it so you could choose to play as either the mecha or mana at the beginning of the game...? Mana use spells, mecha use weapons and inventions...there's an idea There will be orbs that will also allow you to use spells that you aren't trained in for a single time that will be found across the land, treasured remains of the ancients..the original Mana race. Also I'm thinking of having the Ancients language be Theta (check my site if your interested).
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Post by vespuleth on Dec 21, 2004 17:55:43 GMT -5
okay, the story is cliche (man vs machine) and it poses some problems:
what keeps the mana caster from using technology. how does pulling the trigger on a gun affect his casting abilities, and why?
more cliche: the idea of 'the ancients'. id seriously suggest working around this.
as a suggestion, look into doans game idea. he proposes that rather then people being unable to do certain things, cultures have just grown up that support certain things better.
also, the mana balls: will the mecha people be able to use them? i dont see why they wouldnt, unless it still required some sort of mana energy.
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Post by doyleman on Dec 21, 2004 18:26:51 GMT -5
There will be orbs that will also allow you to use spells that you aren't trained in for a single time that will be found across the land that kinda sounds like my orbit game..... anyway, why couldn't mana users use machines? ???seriously, what is holding them back? i'm sure you have that written down and just gave a brief explanation here, but still, sounds weird, mana craft sounds very weird, the magic thing is the only thing that makes sense to me.....
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Post by NASH7777 on Dec 21, 2004 20:33:06 GMT -5
lol yeah I pretty much just wanted to give you an over-view. Think of it as X-men like. The mana people would like the mutants. The mana people are the souls of the ancients reborn into people. They don't know how to use technology, they could...but their society was based off knowledge of mana not that of physics and machines. When it comes to math and science they fall horibly behind, but when it comes to wisdom, souls, time, and magic they are way above the people.
The story goes something like this so far (what I have going in my head, none 100% definative). A meteor which was a great fraction of the size of the planet was heading towards them. They summoned all their power to try and stop it, but their mana was no use to they great object. They decided they had no-other choice but to atleast try to preserve and protect themselves. So they gathered in a temple they had built and the Gray(grey canadian ;D) Time Mage casted a spell around it to preserve that which was within it, he did not put a certain time for the spell as he did not know when the world would be safe again. Now more modern day, the temple is found and opened by a boy, which unlocks the spell and consequencly allows the boy to use any type of mana himself with the proper experience to know how. This awakens the ancients they enter into society. The conflicting part of speaking different languages, burdons these estranged people to the new world. The Mecha people of the current people try to work with these new people, trying to figure out what they want, where they came from etc... ,but when they begin using magic. The mecha ppl become frightened and imprison the mana. Once the mana people realized they were being held captive and not being treated to room and board, they excaped. They try to stop them but it ends up being a brutal fight and the mana excape. The mecha send forces out to find and capture (or kill if necessary) the mana. The some people of the town begin to find magic orbs lying around, and that they contain power like they've never seen. For the most part the mecha fear the magic but some people (against new law) begin experimenting with the orbs. Then they themselves begin to learn magic, and a league of secret people begin starting to work with mana. And even crosses between mecha and mana are formed. Then the ppl of this group send a you (the person who found their temple) to go and try to speak to the ancients. You meet them and one of the ancients takes the knowledge of the language from you. They begin to comunicate with you....
Okay that's about all you need for now. Actually you will start out as the boy finding the temple and go through all the events thereafter and more.
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Post by vespuleth on Dec 21, 2004 21:08:36 GMT -5
that still doesnt explain why the main character, or any of the 'inhabited' characters, wouldnt be able to use 'mecha'. if they are indeed from the current time, they would retain the knowledge from before their habitation, and could still use mecha.
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Dec 21, 2004 22:14:30 GMT -5
Mecha is made from forged metal, which drains mana due to it's denseness. This both prevents Mana users from using Mecha as it weakens their powers, and Mecha from using Mana as the mana orbs dissolve upon contect.
How's that for an explanation? Sure, it's a little cliche, but so is the whole nature vs machine idea. This explaination works as well as any other idea, so why not use it?
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Post by doyleman on Dec 21, 2004 22:36:38 GMT -5
Well, now it makes sense to me Well, I could care less if it is cliche` (I mean, I didn't think it was too cliche) plus, cliches ARE everywhere practically. I mean really, some story ideas that i can't think of being made is a piece of crap moves from toilet to toilet to get flushed because no one wants to flush him. and if it isn't cliche, then there is usually something wrong with the story somewhere. I am a story kind of guy though, but I loved Kingdom Hearts, and when you really look at it, it had a lot of cliches, yet it was cool and fun for me. guy has dreams, guy wakes up from girl friend, guy wants to get out of home place and explore, and guy goes through heck to just save/see the girl, which in the end, he ends up defeating a bad guy who has some possesion of his best friend. this is my opinion though, so whatever, but i think nash has tricks up his sleeve or something. either way, i like it as it is
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2004 3:09:11 GMT -5
I'd say (the way the story's set up so far), just make the boy able to do both and you only play as the boy so the rest don't matter. It only makes sense the boy knows how to use mecha and can cast magic. I'd say try to keep it more simple, like not being able to make any object float and move, maybe just lighter ones like feathers stuff. Doing this with every object in the game'd be insane.
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Post by NASH7777 on Dec 22, 2004 8:37:21 GMT -5
Yes the main character will be able to use mecha, to an extent of the simpler stuff. After all he was born in the age of mecha. But the mana people won't. They will be able to use it, but they won't. First they would have to obtain the mecha from mecha people, then figure out how to work it all that and they're just plain better off sticking with mana. Afterall, you don't have guns to reload and all that, which would be another problem if they stole some mecha. How would they know to reload and if the gun jams etc... way to confusing for their untechnilogical race. For the main character I already have planned on him being able to use items some mecha, which will be another big part of the game. That group he's in using both mecha and mana will be strong but they won't be able to use complex mecha or complex mana either. Mana- 100 magic ManaMecha- 50 mana, 50 mecha Mecha- 100 mecha I'm thinking I'll have seperate endings. One where mecha wins, mana wins, or peace between the two (sharing of knowledge).
As for not having everything won't be able to float. it will be like everyevent will set up a bunch of variables/flags responding to each spell. When you talk to that event. It will load these variables and if you press square it will to a spell on that event. Whether that spell works on the event will be determined by the flags flipped etc.. So not everything will float, and some things will only float when you learn a stronger float spell. In the beginning before you learn mana, to get rid of plants you'll have to use poison then a lighter or something. But once you learn a stronge fire attack you can just burn the plant. I'm also thinking of having a social level. wheather your more for mana or mecha. 0-neutral then move it up or down depending on how you respond to people. And ppl will say different things depending on that variable.
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Post by NASH7777 on Dec 23, 2004 11:07:59 GMT -5
Well already I was having the mecha humans fearing the mana. (as I said think X-men on that). But I'spose I could have the mana fear the mecha as well. Afterall, after being frozen in time for thousands of years and coming out and seeing large mecha, metal buidlings and creations. It would be quite a change from what they were use to. And we all know change can be scary, so they fear this new idea of math and science and Mecha, which may sound weird to us, but would it really be that much weirder then any of us seeing someone do magic?
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Post by vespuleth on Dec 23, 2004 12:27:51 GMT -5
i think will is right. the story needs to be more dynamic then just 'we dont like the machines' and 'we dont like the magic users'. there needs to be a deeper reason for war. some suggestions:
survival (one society is working a genoicide, the victim must fight for survial)
implication: why is society one trying to wipe out society two?
jihad: one society sees another as pagan, and is trying to purify the unrighteousness
implication: what is the breaking point that leads to war? (people are always unrighteous, what makes them so unrighteous they must be purged?)
conquest: one nation is expanding
implications: none that i can think of, its pretty straight forward. i dont advise this setting.
there are tons of others, like revenge, powderkeg, and so forth, but these are generally some good war settings. hope that helps.
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Post by NASH7777 on Dec 23, 2004 13:55:23 GMT -5
Believe me, when I start working on it it will all come together. And of course I haven't been telling you everything that I have planned. There will be plenty of stuff to keep you occupied and advance in an ever changing story. There will be reasons for every action and event. You'll just have to wait for the final product. Yes thanks all for the suggestions and I think about every single one. You'll just have to wait to see which ones I implement.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Dec 27, 2004 4:48:46 GMT -5
I like where this all is headed. Really, truly try to keep all these ideas in mind, and try to come up with concrete reasons as ves suggested. Will (jimmy) had some pretty good ideas, and I think you could have a solid game by putting his and your ideas together.
Also, be sure to have a definite purpose for the hybrids. Who are they fighting for, and what are their goals? It would be very cool if the player had some say in which side he is on.
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Post by NASH7777 on Dec 27, 2004 10:50:30 GMT -5
Yes the Mana-Mecha league will ultimately decide the ending....well your influence on and with them will. As I posted earlier there will be 3 actions based on your social level and choices.
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