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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2005 22:54:22 GMT -5
Those are both good ideas. Maybe if the evil sorcerer had a massive army fight the people-massive army, and the player manages to sneak into the evil sorcerer's castle/whatever.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2005 5:31:15 GMT -5
My thoughts on what could make it better are...
What you have now as the legend is:
Godly War between good and bad gods victorious leader makes Heaven leader god learns of powerful ring of creation/destruction, searches, and finds it leader god creates humans and world ring gets stolen by another god sends a man to get it man returns and learns leader god is bad (instead of good) man frees good gods and destroys ring bad leader god breaks the seal put on him and comes back bad leader god learns of dark spell book, searches, and finds it man fights and kills bad leader god man's children search for the dark spell book and destroy it Godly War between humans and bad gods, humans win
It drags on a lot, as you can probably tell. For example, what is the point of doing both the ring and spell book (in the same manner)? Nonetheless I'd suggest editting it down to something more like this: (you want it to not have multiple conclusions throughout it, but rather be one story that follows along the trend of Introduction, Rising Action, Climax, Falling Action, Conclusion)
Gods make Heaven, world, and humans/creatures (later) Godly War between the gods (not specifying 'good' or 'evil'), one God remains afterwards God learns of ancient piece of literature written by a very famous-for-his-brilliance (now non-existing) God that contains many if not all of the world's secrets, and seeks it for some unknown but believable/explained-later reason (could be good or bad) (feel free to change the magical item, but it should be something with at least a little more background to it) A man happens to find it first, reads it and it warned him that a God would likely learn of and seek this book to learn how to destroy/take-over/something else the world/humankind/something else (whether the God is 'evil' or not is still unknown, perhaps the man just wanted to keep the book for himself to do the same thing, perhaps not) and prepares to hide/run-away/fight/(have the character explaining say no one knows)/something else to/from the God
Then go to modern day with the playing part being set-up with the player being a seemingly normal guy that tries to kill the dark sorcerer/whatever for a good enough reason (examples: he's a soldier and is ordered to, (don't do to save someone that was kidnapped), revenge/vengeance (though I recommend waiting on something as serious as that)). To make it more realistic I'd recommend him going there with a group of well-trained warriors (or even a whole entire army) instead of all alone. Keep in mind that you don't have to go the predictable route of evil sorcerer is sent by evil overlord, now go kill the evil overlord. I'd say try to introduce a second component to the story besides the legend and God. Gl
Edit: Also note how you could very easily change the Gods to human rulers as well.
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 21, 2005 16:33:44 GMT -5
i like the idea.
how bout this?:
gods created heaven (and world), but couldn't decide who should rule. a war broke out and about 10 gods remained. Genesis, the most powerful of all of the gods left, is recommended to rule. He does. Genesis is very shady and secretive, so when he learns of a book of dark arts that was created by sorcerers, he orders them to give it to him. They refuse, so Genesis fights back. This gives Genesis a bad reputation, so one day (the war still going on, even though its more of the humans saying "how do we gat rid of these gods" and the gods saying "how should we best bully the humans") a warrior of great strength appears to lead an attack on the gods. He is the son of a god of a different mythology. All of the other gods are defeated by the warrior. Except Genesis. He flees and is never found. The warrior learns of a ring in existence that has the power of creation and destruction, so he hastily destroys it before it can cause harm (i've already included a major dialogue concerning the ring in my game, so i still need to have it) Everyone thinks Genesis is gone, since he hasn't shown himself for 150 years. Then the two worlds (warrior's and the parallel world) are destroyed by a massive attack by an angelic army. People fear the return of Genesis so they hurry to find someone, anyone who can help them. The survivors arrive on an island chain of four islands, each with its own military. However, the angelic army disappears. The people can't be too cautious so they still train the military. When a dark sorcerer emerges, the military of one island is sent to fight, but is massacred. the main character's best friend just so happens to have been in the army. he gathers a team and heads to the castle to get revenge. after the sorcerer is defeated, he and his friends have other quests to take care of, ultimately leading to Genesis being behind everything as the puppet master, and on top of it all, the main character learning of his connection to the warrior of legend.
good or still too long? even if its long, i have it so you learn the legends gradually as you go...so...
hope its at least a little better.
-the smurf
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2005 18:44:20 GMT -5
You need to either explain about the two parallel worlds or cut one out (I advise cutting one out because it's completely irrelevant and just makes everything even more unbelievable). Have you thought out what'll be tought to the player each time the player is tought something about the legend through the game? I say this because right now it should be cut up like so (I see): 1st- "gods created heaven (and world), [you'll need a better reason for a war than 'couldn't decide who would rule]. . Genesis is recommended to rule, and he does."
2nd- "he learns of a book [you'll need more background for this item], he orders them to give it to him. They refuse, so Genesis fights back."
3rd- "a warrior of great strength appears to lead an attack on the gods. [you'll need a good explanation of how humans can kill Gods. bringing in a second religion into one religion's story doesn't make any sense.] All of the other gods are defeated by the warrior. [by telling them this about Genesis you're telling them exactly what the rest of the game's story will comprise of]"
4th- "The warrior learns of a ring in existence that has the power of creation and destruction, so he hastily destroys it before it can cause harm. [this has nothing to do with anything]"
5th- ""
For the present day, if it's the very first mission of the game I recommend not using the avenge-a-loved-one motive yet, because that's much more serious and should be later and built up to instead of thrown in at the start. (sorrry hitou, it is a good idea)
So, do you see how your story will consist of 5 different occasions of blabbing on about some stupid-cliche legend 1000's of years ago (at least that's how the player will think of it the 3rd/4th/5th time they start being told about it)? That's what I meant by having it be one story where it follows Introduction, Rising Action, Climax, Falling Action, Conclusion. There's hope, but you have to be willing to make sacrifices. Gl
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 21, 2005 21:07:31 GMT -5
wow, pickiness!
yes, i do have a good idea of where all the legend information comes up. i'll cut the parallel world.
the problem with getting rid of the ring is that i based a part of the story in the game around it. maybe it was written in the legend but never actually made.
and finally, how bout mc has always wnted to be in the military, but has never applied. the military goes in search of the sorcerer, but he and friends go to the town mayors on the island to get the keys to the castle (i already based THE WHOLE FIRST QUEST around these keys, so i have to keep it) because the hometown mayor understands mc's wishes. (to prove himself worthy).
he goes into the castle before the military and defeats the sorcerer. he is astonished at this. eventually he learns of his connection to the warrior of legend throughout the game when he continues his quests on other islands with different characters. cliche'd, i know, but it works pretty well, doesn't it? [braces himself for the incoming criticisms and harsh comments]
-the smurf
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2005 2:20:58 GMT -5
I just don't see why you want to limit yourself to what so many other games have done before you already when you c o u l d make your own story. Isn't there any kind of words of wisdom or lesson in life you'd want to pass on to the world through your story instead of copying the ol' empty-in-meaning good vs. evil story? It's not hard to make a good story with a meaningful message through it when you draw on life experiences. You just have to be brave enough to break off from the old trends ('cliches') of RPGs. That being said, I don't understand how a whole quest could be based around a set of keys. It seems to me they can very easily be cut no matter what the use with a little creativity. Same with the ring. If it's only one scene/part-of-the-game couldn't you just skip over it? If the ring comes back into the story somehow couldn't the spell book take its place instead (or vice versa)? If the ring's destroyed 1000's of years ago and means nothing why couldn't you cut it? If it's important to one character you have planned, couldn't you replace that character with a new one? It helps to write things out well before putting them into RPGM2 (to in the end yield a better game/story in RPGM2). Everything anyone creates comes from mixing things you've learned from other sources together. The difference is that your life is a unique source. This has been my method since the very beginning and has worked v e r y well for me, and from your story and all your revisions of it it seems as though you're too afraid to not get your ideas from other games/movies/etc.
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 22, 2005 15:38:28 GMT -5
*sigh* kay. the only meaning of life i've ever come up with (in the real world) is that the world is a really crappy place... i can probably portray that by making the villain want to make it even crappier (starvation, famine, homelessness, etc) the quests in my game are fairly short, which is why there are so many of them. i have to have a reason for going to the other towns on the island, and i don't want to overwhelm the player with massive dialogue, so i need some suggestions... as for the ring,...i can probably cut it out, and replace the scene with something more apropriate. it shouldn't take too long, and i'll have plenty of time once spring break starts... the main character can be someone who acts without thinking, and winds up getting himself into a lot of trouble...maybe...(i do plan on giving the characters much more background, btw, once i make them all.) alright...here's an idea that i can incorporate into my story without deleting it and starting over (cause that seriously might be what i'll have to do...): let's say there are five islands (one chain of four and another off to the side (this one was reduced to ruin by natural disasters, but still has civilaization on it)) all controlled by the same government. Genesis is the king, and he's powerhungry. The government is opressive and makes life hard for anyone who is not a noble. the government has branches on some of the islands and there are big officials in charge of these branches. the islands have assembled militaries. eventually the sorcerer in charge of the branch on the mc's home island gets carried away and starts killing for fun and stuff like that. the military is sent to deal with him. the mc has always wanted to be in the military (i feel like i'm repeating myself, oh, i am) so he gets a heads up from the mayor because the mayor wants to see him become strong. he and his team go to the other towns (need a reason...help) and eventually get to the castle before the military. they fight the sorcerer and defeat him. other people learn of this character's skill, and ask him and his team to aid them with their government problems. obviously the government doesn't like this very much... how bout the legend was about a man who stood up to the government (this could cut the ring out completely) and the mc finds out his distantly related (descendant) or something. i'll make the book be a book of opressive laws or something (magic still exists, it's just not the source of attention). gimme feedback asap, cause i don't want to keep going with my game and then have to go back and change it all. like i said, this could be worked into my current game, so i wouldn't have to start over. -the smurf
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2005 16:08:25 GMT -5
That sounds a l o t better. ;D It's definitely much more believable. One reason I use in my game for [mayor] to ask the party to [do some task] is because he doesn't have enough manpower to do it on-top of fighting a distant war elsewhere (like, a ton of the soldiers are off fighting). "the only meaning of life i've ever come up with (in the real world) is that the world is a really crappy place..." Why do you think so? If it's a personal story that happened to you it could very well make a good story for a game. If it's just the news shows all these far-off distant conflicts, then you could make a story out of how the world's a really crappy place for some people but not others (you for say). I'll bet there's some potential stories to make out of your life, but perhaps 'the meaning of life' is a little too much.
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Mar 22, 2005 16:31:39 GMT -5
Many good villians are actually trying to do the opposite - that is make the world a better place . . . for them. The problem comes when they start hurting others to make themselves feel better or to make themselves richer so they can be comfortable.
If the sorcerer is sadistic and takes pleasure in harming others, the story would make sense.
I'm a little confused as to why the characters must go to the other towns? Is it so they can learn information they wouldn't get otherwise? Perhaps the group could come upon someone in need of help or a merchant caravan in need of an escort. Maybe there is something in one of the towns that would be helpful. Perhaps the bridge is out and the party needs to go to town and encourage the people to finish rebuilding it. The closest town to the sorcerer would have valuable information about what the sorcerer has been up to and where he might be found.
Your rewrite in more down to earth, I think it will make a more interesting story.
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Post by Neo Samurai on Mar 22, 2005 16:36:36 GMT -5
Yeah.
Basing your story off your life is a great idea to help it sound more believable. There could be some situations in your life that could create a very powerful and deep story.
Same thing with your characters. Try to split yourself into the different characters in your story. And, whenever you get an idea for something, write it on a piece of paper. Then, try to work with those ideas and weave them into a story.
And don't just sit their and attempt to make up ideas. Just relax and carry on your day like you normally would. You'll be surprised on what events occur during the day that you could base on your game.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2005 16:39:55 GMT -5
"Specific Cutscenes not gone into detail but overviewed - Write down every cutscene you think of, use dialogue where needed and summarize others. Put all your cutscenes in the right order and connect them from A to B to C etc., and you'll have a perfect plan for what happens in what order (more than just 3 key parts in the story not connected, then later connected with very weak/lame reasons (leading to disbelief among the player)) and what the player does in what order, what cutscenes and locations you'll have to make, and from there you can move onto the next part. If you find yourself having trouble connecting two parts of the story together do NOT force out some weak connection, give it time and wait and you'll randomly come up with a good idea of what to do in between point C and E (or whatever). Do not be afraid to go for several weeks or more without adding anything to the story. (this is the longest part - it's the whole story planned pretty thoroughly)"
That's what I'd recommend you do. So far you've probably got a few important scenes in your mind. Go write them down and put them in order, than keep putting more parts down on paper and putting them in the right order and eventually you'll have your game.
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 22, 2005 16:58:06 GMT -5
whew, i'm so relieved... how do i make cutscenes (especially those not including the main character) cause i can't figure it out. i think i can come up with good enough reasons for the people to visit other towns. i have to, because i have three other towns on the home island, two with new party members, and all with important battles. i'll work on it. like i said, characters will become more once i finish with their histories and stuff. thanx to everyone for their constant help with this... -the smurf
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 22, 2005 17:55:57 GMT -5
i decided on a title that actually fits this time.
Nagai Bouken (which is japanese for "long adventure", but the grammar is probably wrong)
hey, i'll try to come up with more ideas, but it's the best i gots right now.
-the smurf
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 23, 2005 11:37:25 GMT -5
i've decided against posting any further information on my characters. in my game, there will be various locations on the overworld maps where small dialogues between two characters takes place. these "skit points" will reveal hidden information about the characters.
why hear it from me when you could learn about it through gameplay?
this also adds a sense of secrecy to the characters.
-the smurf
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Post by Neo Samurai on Mar 23, 2005 17:16:51 GMT -5
Great idea, smurf. The "skits" in Tales of Symphonia were both imformative, funny, and helps to develop the story even more. I liked how, in some skits, the character could earn a new title (I liked Presea and Regal's Poke-Poke (whatever it was called) title. It was pretty funny how they came across it).
I think, if they're done well enough, they could be a great addition to your game.
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 23, 2005 18:37:43 GMT -5
;D
my main goal with this is to add to the game. what i mean by that is there will be a default set of events through the game. but if you engage in some of the "skits", those events could change or new events could be available depending on the "skits" that were engaged. example:
two of my characters are of japanese descent (one ninja and one samurai). they have entwining histories, and as a result are mortal enemies. you could learn a LOT more about this by engaging in skits relating to them.
my first idea is to put the scripts in event boxes and place them randomly about the overworlds, but i'm looking for suggestions on how to better the idea. such as if its a game-changing skit, maybe it appears as one object and if its a minor skit it appears as a different object or something to that effect. i dont know, i still have to think about it.
but right now i'm still working on the default playthrough, so...
-the smurf
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2005 3:34:38 GMT -5
I'm also doing something like that (Star Ocean 2's Private Actions). It definitely helps when the characters don't h a v e to develop through the linear story (much easier to make, not better or worse either way). From my site, perhaps this would be more suitable (it depends on the size of towns and number of party members though): ( williampaladin.tripod.com ) "Private Actions: Private Actions (95 total) are where the characters go off on their own in cities and interact with each other and the townspeople. Depending on how Nick behaves in these Private Actions, his relationships with the other characters will change. Depending on what Nick does in Private Actions and what his Relationship Values with the other characters are (and some other things like side-quests, linear story progression, and money requirements), different Private Actions will become available."
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 24, 2005 10:03:22 GMT -5
yeah, private actions are cool, but they'd take a little bit of work to make...um...
i think i'll stick with the skit point idea, as it's more simplistic.
-the smurf
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Post by Neo Samurai on Mar 24, 2005 11:01:29 GMT -5
Both are great ideas. I may look into it myself.
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 25, 2005 9:27:56 GMT -5
almost done...i'm maybe about 1/4 into the last quest in the game...still have to play test to make sure it works.
my goal is to finish by the end of spring break. then i can get it up for download or something.
-the smurf
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2005 9:33:35 GMT -5
Woah!!! You're that close to being done. Wow. This is definitely cool.
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 25, 2005 9:51:11 GMT -5
yeah...i was already a good 1/3 or so into my game when i joined the board, which is why i was so hesitant to make huge changes. i wouldn't get too excited though. since i've never actually play tested the game in full, i don't know how long it is. my guess is two hours at MAX (highly doubt it; maybe an hour/hour fifteen; maybe shorter:D). I'm not very good at dragging the plot out forever like tales of symphonia or star ocean. oh well, it's still a game... -the smurf
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 26, 2005 9:20:38 GMT -5
well, i'm looking for soldiers for one of my town's barracks. (see "how to make your characters appear in a really crappy game!" topic on the agetec forums for more details)
i thank DungeonWarden and Jimmy Eat World!!!!!!!!!!! for contributing already, and i have two open slots left. anyone who wants one of their characters to be in these barracks as an NPC if you can tell me their name, their model (colors if you want), and anything else that you think will make my job easier. i'll wait a few days before filling the last two slots myself.
-the unimaginative smurf
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Post by Neo Samurai on Mar 26, 2005 10:48:40 GMT -5
Well, this character is originally a pirate in my game, but I guess his occupation could be different in yours.
Name: Devante Merrill Model: Samurai (Doesn't matter what color his clothes are. Just make sure his hair is black and that his face is set to Face A, the angry anime-looking eyes) Personality: He is very cocky and makes a lot of smart-ass comments. He, however, has a code of honor.
He's supposed to be one of the comic reliefs in my game, so try your best to make him funny (but keep to the personality I showed you above).
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Post by The Smurf on Mar 26, 2005 11:40:34 GMT -5
okay, so that leaves one more open spot...
-the smurf
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