Walking and Waiting: Party Motion Change

[takisu]

I was wondering...I wanna make it so that everytime that the main character stops he is in the wait motion, and when he goes again he goes back to the walk motion. I know this is probably really stupid but it would make my game look better, any ideas?


Edit by Doan: I changed the title to reflect what the post is really about.

[Nje]

Still no responses?

..I went and tried to change this, but failed.

Thing is, you can have it set to happy or walk, or somethin.. anything other than the wait motion when your character's not moving.

If you try to change it to the wait motion, it doesn't work..

As I recall, this is a battle that came to a bitter end in failure, by the rpgm2 veterans, a long while back..

There's only two possible options I can think of-

1-use the all-powerful vehicle script commands to.. I have no idea, I just know there's a lot of rather unholy rule-breaking that can be done when you mess with those things.

2-make your character completely transparant when standing, and right in place, an event of them standing, set to face your direction..

..ahh.. that last one sounds.. too good to be true..
I wonder what horrible truth is in wait for me if I try and see if it'll really work..

[takisu]

Hmmm....There has to be a way...I was thinking making like a Indirect effect or a direct affect for something like this...Don't really understand those really though.Anyways thanks for the help.

[Doan the Nado]

Hmm... Nje, I like that second idea of yours. I'll have to give that a shot and see if it can be made to work.

This idea has been tried numerous times by various people, but I have not personally tried it. I, too, am convinced there is a way around it, but in the past, I claimed that it was too much trouble to be worth the minor aesthetic value that it would add. Now that there are a couple new ideas to try out, it just may not be as hard as was originally thought.

[takisu]

I would think it might sorta be something like this(Insert into Enter map script)
SBR:Flag(blah=off
input buttons:constant wait
SBC:Variable:User Button=-1(no button pressed)
Other Wait 20F
Memeber:Effects:Motion Change:Leon=wait 100F
Input button:Constant Wait
Motion:Walk.
I dont think that will work but ill test it in a while. Ill give the results when im done.

[Doan the Nado]

Check this out!

Yeah, that's right, I got it working in less than an hour. That is counting the time it took to hook my Playstation 2 up, do the recording, upload the file, and everything. There are, however, a few drawbacks, as I tried to indicate in the video:

1. The movement is slightly jerky and lagging. This is because the event is taking one step and then reloading the party/event coordinates, comparing them, and making another step if necessary. This means that the party member must move before the event will even have the opportunity to move. This however, is pretty minor.

2. Bypass objects must be turned on. This seems to be the biggest limitation. For some reason, Bypass Members is not sufficient to cause the event to move onto the same space as the member. It will stop on the space before it. Turning on Bypass Objects fixes this problem, but leads to a ton of others, as the event will only be able to walk at ground level. If there is a way around this Bypass Members limitation, I'd love to hear how.

3. More work is necessary. The event must be placed on every map, and code has to be added to the Enter Map Script(s) to cause the event to move to the proper location before the screen fades in. This is not really a limitation, simply something that I did not bother to implement before creating the video.

If we can solve #2, I would call this method a complete success.

[takisu]

Uggh I wish I could see it!! Will you have some script ideas for this Doan?? This is definetly a good breakthrough!!

[Deleted]

That's awesome!!! ;D

I tried to think of a solution for #2 but couldn't. I did just think of another method that might work though. It may sound familiar, because I have a vague recollection of someone else saying it:

Make a constant Custom Indirect Effect on every party member ('every' because members stop having their constant Custom Indirect Effects run when they're KO'd) that checks if the party's X and Y variables have changed every ? Frames, and if they haven't (= standing still), change the leader's motion to Wait. Then, through Doan's awesome Custom Camera System method, when they press a direction have it change the leader's motion to Walk. I really have no idea whether this will work or not though (guessing not).

Yours is awesome though Doan!!

[BloodKnight]

You ran into the same problem I did Doan. I used that technique to bypass the whole events/party script limitation that supposedly can only be solved by nash's enter map script doodad. Doan, have you tested how the event works on walls and such? Just curious.

[NASH7777]

heh thanks BK. I was just about to post that you could get around it that way....

[Dungeon Warden]

Problem 1 (the jerkiness) is the main reason I gave up on making the characters stop walking when they are standing still. Why substitute one problem for another. I did suggest a while ago that maybe you could have the wait action only occur if the party stays in one place for several frames, this way the party is at least standing still if the player stops moving them but the characters don't walk in jerky movements everywhere they go.

Is it the party or the event that must have by-pass objects on? If it's the event, then having the event only work when the party stops moving for a few frames may prevent any possibility of walking through walls and such. That's my two-cents anyway.

[Doan the Nado]

The event must have Bypass Objects on. Collision detection is no problem, because the party is still there, they are simply invisible.

I think the solution to the problem where the dummy event will walk right through stairs instead of up them is to add a Z check, and then use Float on the event to ensure it is the correct height. I have it worked out in my head how to do this, but it's getting late and I'm off to bed for the night. Perhaps I'll get back to this idea tomorrow morning.

UPDATE: I set out to try this idea this morning, but events have no Float command. Also, according to the help files, Bypass Members allows other things to pass through it, while Bypass Objects allows it to pass through other things. It seems like this must be a case of bad translation, because that is certainly not what the names of these commands imply. With no way to fix this method in sight, I feel safe to declare this idea as an impossibility, unless you have a perfectly flat world, or you want to contour your maps to match the objects that are on them.

[Dungeon Warden]

I suppose the names should actually be "Event can by-pass objects" and "Event can be by-passed by members" (i.e. the party), although the shorter names take up less room.

Even though the event can't move into the party with by-pass members on, the party can move into the event. Can you perhaps move the party away (while transparent) and place the events where they were standing, then move the party back (so they can move again when the player pushes the direction button)? This may further slow down movement somewhat (since there has to be a short pause as the party moves away and back again) but it may work - especially if the change only occurs if the party doesn't move for a few frames (instead of every time the player stops pushing on the directional pad).

[tuah]

Ho dang, I'd hate to see how much lag it would cause to do this kind of thing with VFX characters!

[Doan the Nado]

One problem with your suggestion, DW, is that every time you move the party, it moves the camera. This would make movement look even jerkier, as the camera would be moving back and forth all over the place when it looks to the player as if it shouldn't be moving at all. Another problem is that I wasn't doing anything to the party at all; I was simply controlling the display event through its action script. Any command which would need to move the party would add a level of complication which would suggest that I may as well use a different, more complicated method, anyways.

[The Final Rune]

I might be thinking about this wrong, but couldn't we create an script to check the party's X and Y coordinates and if they don't change for a set number of frames to have it change the animation to wait until any button is pressed? Of course I don't think this would be possible without Nash's little trick, but it seems possible, in my head at least.

[Dungeon Warden]

That's kind of what we've been trying to figure out, Final Rune. You have the basic idea, the problem is how to script it.

Sorry Doan, I forgot the camera moves with the party. That would look bad. I'm thinking the only way to do it so it looks okay with very little jerky need is to do a complex script using some unusual methodology. Perhaps Nash's vehicle enter map trick is the answer. Has anyone tried this yet?

[BloodKnight]

You could do it without nash's little script thing, but IMO it's just too much work for an asthetic preference.

[takisu]

I checked out the vid Doan, sweet!! This is exactly what I was looking to do.

[vespuleth]

you know... my cursor for the tbs follows the party onto multiple levels, so i wonder if just substituting a model of a person would work.... id have to add a final condition that if event x/y = party x/y, motion change wait or something. ill check it out and get back to you. dont hold your breath for it or anything, though.

[realitybites]

Bump, wow, I wish I could figure it out, I dont really know how to check if the party is moving or not to see if the stop motion can take place. Hmmm Any ideas?

[Dungeon Warden]

Odd, I was just looking at this yesterday. One way to check is to look if the party has moved or not since the last check , and if they haven't, change to the not walking animation.

I though about using a timer to see if the controller has been used since the last check, but there is no way to check if the joystick is being used.

I don't think there is anyway to do this without some slow down, and that makes the movements jerky.

How about using a menu option to allow the player to turn walking on and off? It's the player who will ultimately have to deal with it anyway.

[realitybites]

Good point DW, I might do that. I smell a side project.

[NASH7777]

I have another idea that may or not work. What about having an indirect effect that after each step does a motion change but single motion change, so afterwards they no longer are stepping but if you keep walking the indirect effect keeps the single effect going? It probably wont work but tis worth a shot.

[The Final Rune]

[white]I've been thinking about this for a while now, and I can't find any real solution. So, I propose just leaving it as it is and not trying to alter the animations.

Why not just forget about this and instead work to make sure your cut scenes reflect this change. Instituting this sort of change simply for the sake of the visuals seems wasteful. In my cinematics I alter the character animations to stand, wait or walk when appropriate, but otherwise, they simply remain in their walking state.

Either way its just my two cents, but I'm not going to keep trying this anymore.[/white]