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Post by christi on Mar 14, 2005 17:53:31 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this a lot today; I can't decide which route I want to go regarding the availability of weapons to the party.
In the games I've played, (including some non-RPGs) it has been possible to carry a virtually limitless amount of weapons. I'm not sure that I like this. It doesn't really seem practical for a character to trudge through mountains, deserts and wastelands carrying no fewer than twenty swords with him at any given time.
My question is this: how do you all feel? Does anyone agree, or would you consider this to be an acceptable/desirable breach of reality for an RPG?
With that out of the way, here's a deeper explanation of the poll questions:
Option 1: The party is allowed to carry as many weapons as it can acquire. Each weapon is equippable and interchangable by every member of the party.
Option 2: The party is allowed to carry as many weapons as it can acquire. However, each party member can only equip designated weapon types. The hero equips swords, the magician equips staffs, and so forth. (Since there are only three members in my party, I will not be using classes in my game. Therefore, if I choose this option, weapon usability will not be based on class, it will be based on individual member.)
Option 3: Each party member starts out with one weapon. In the interest of keeping things realistic, if a party member wishes to acquire a better weapon, they must first discard/trade the weapon they have. Therefore, no party member would ever carry more than one weapon at a time.
Option 4: Each party member starts out with one weapon. If a party member wishes to have a more powerful weapon, they must perform upgrades on the weapon they have.
Option 4 is by far my favorite, and the way I would like to set up my game. However, I can't think of an easy way to do this; obviously it would require a lot of programming that I'm not sure I want to undertake. If I do decide to go this route, I'll likely be posting it on the Technical Help board to see if anyone has any even remotely plausible ways to do this.
If I come to the conclusion that Option 4 will be too difficult to employ, I will probably go with Option 3, UNLESS it is apparent that people would prefer being able to carry as many weapons as they can acquire. I'd like to get as many opinions as possible; please let me know what you think.
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Post by Neo Samurai on Mar 14, 2005 18:59:05 GMT -5
I like Option 4 as well. TFR is doing a similar idea for his RPG. If it's really what you want to do, go ahead and do it. I don't really think it would take a lot of scripting. Then again, I've never accually attempted it before (I did have a Blacksmith system in an old tabletop RPG I created. Perhaps I should try reviving it in my game).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2005 19:26:53 GMT -5
A few other ideas to think about: Each character could perhaps equip everything but is better with certain weapons. (this is what I'm doing) Each character can use a few different types of weapons. (I've heard people say this online, I'm also somewhat doing this, basically because someone skilled with a Magic Rod should also be skilled with a Magic Staff and such) There are stat requirements to equip certain weapons. Thus everyone could equip everything, but not without training first (raising a stat or two). (a lot of online RPGs do this) ___________________________________ Option 4 is good as long as it doesn't become annoying. Final Fantasy 8 is the only game I know that did this, and the ultimates required searching a t o n and finding the one enemy who every 1/128 times dropped the item you were looking for. Otherwise, I think it's a good idea too. Depending on how you specifically want the upgrading menu to be like it could be more or less difficult, but the basic idea of -checking to see if the specified character has the specified weapon -checking to see if the party has enough money (and then removing it) -checking to see if the party has the required items in the bag (and then removing them) -removing specified weapon from specified character and giving new specific weapon to specified character (I think you can even forceably equip it, though I'm not 100% sure) -cancelling switch if any requirement is unmet isn't that hard. It does require a lot of scripting work and memory, and the more weapons you have the more work it'll be. FF8 only had 4 weapons per character, but each weapon unlocked new limits. Perhaps you could make something cool to separate the weapons from each other and not have as many either if you go this route (but actually after you make the first weapon upgrade you make work the rest'll be copy/paste/editing). _________________________________________ I'm gonna vote 'Other' and this is what I'm voting for: "Each character can use a few different types of weapons. (I've heard people say this online, I'm also somewhat doing this, basically because someone skilled with a Magic Rod should also be skilled with a Magic Staff and such)" Basically, the normal way of each party member equipping certain things and carrying whatever they want in their big invisible bag of items works pretty well, and this is VERY easy to make in RPGM2 as well as a little unique (and realistic). However, you should do whatever you think is best for your game (which several people will also likely post ).
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Post by Neo Samurai on Mar 14, 2005 19:37:11 GMT -5
Tales of Symphonia did a Blacksmith system as well, but it wasn't all that good (I'd just buy new equipment).
I've never seen any other Blacksmith system after that, but I'd love to see one be done. If you really want to do this, christi, and it's not too much trouble, I'd like you to do it. ;D
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Post by christi on Mar 14, 2005 20:21:01 GMT -5
I'd like to give it a try. Ironically enough (and I didn't plan it this way) one of my party members actually works for the local weaponsmith at the start of the game, so the party would definitely have the hookup when it came to weapon modification.
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Post by Neo Samurai on Mar 14, 2005 20:36:55 GMT -5
Yeah. I remember reading about her from your post about your game. I could see that working real well with the Blacksmith system, if you decide to have it.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Mar 14, 2005 21:29:22 GMT -5
I agree that option 4 is cool, but perhaps characters could carry two or three weapons. I mean, it would be completely realistic for a fighter to have a longsword, a dagger, and perhaps a bow on his back, especially if he's someone who will be in the wilderness for extended periods of time. I agree that unlimited weapons are dumb, and I do like your proposed upgrade system, but I think you should try to avoid having it completely linear. If the player had a few options, it would make it really fun in my opinion.
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Post by Jugem on Mar 15, 2005 6:22:21 GMT -5
For crying out loud, these are videogames. They don't need to be realistic in every aspect. Being able to carry all the weapons you can find/purchase is nothing new to the genre, and I don't see anything wrong with it. You're probably better off selling your old stuff anyway, but if you don't, I don't have a problem with being able to carry them all. If we're going talk realism, then what are they doing carrying and using weapons at all? And why can they barge into people's houses and take things? And why is there an evil overlord that the military can't defeat, but some little punk kid can? The answer to all those is of course that it's a videogame, and these are accepted practices.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2005 20:02:11 GMT -5
It's just an unrealistic to only be able to carry one of each type of weapon as it is to carry 20.
Edit: I think your idea of the customizing's good too though.
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Post by Dungeon Warden on Mar 15, 2005 21:55:12 GMT -5
I guess a agree with what everyone else is saying. Personally I like the idea of each character using a few different weapons best and therefore voted Other.
In my game, I am going the customizing route. Not only can you make a weapon more powerful, but you can equip add-ons that will make the weapon more powerful against certain creatures (i.e. flame aura causes extra damage to ice creatures). I realize this is a lot of scripting but I know how to do it and I think it will make for more interesting game play.
For example: a sword might have two slots that can be used to boost it's power. Do you equip flame aura, +2 damage, +2 attack, or counterattack on it? If you're going into an ice cave, the flame might be better than the +2 damage, but what if you meet something immune to flame? I like the stragety element inherent in this system.
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Post by The Final Rune on Mar 31, 2005 10:18:00 GMT -5
I like to think that unless your characters are total NOOBs in the adventuring world (level 1 sons of Inn Keeper), they would likey have a weapon of choice, be well skilled with said weapon, and also probably possess the best caliber, make or model of their weapon of choice.
As analternative I think maybe in the game (following standard RPG format), there should exist a 'perfect' version of a character's weapon. Best balance, percision, edge, etc. And to obtain said weapon they should have to under go a lengthy and/or hard side quest. Beating the game should not require such weapons, but having them makes it easier.
For progress through the world I would keep weapon stats the same and alter the weapons power and usefullness(sp??) depending on the character's own stats.
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Post by vespuleth on Apr 1, 2005 14:36:14 GMT -5
i think the proposed system (number four) is good, and i say that as well as being able to upgrade, also able to purchase a new weapon, but still with the limitation of carrying only one of each type of weapon. this way, the player gets a little more variety in what the weapon can be. further, to make things more generic, you could let the player start by choosing their weapon proficiencies (this may not work out well). i also agree with what doan addressed, as each character should be able to carry an ensamble of weapons, and their archeatype should identify what it is, and how many. for example, an assassin would rarely carry a sword, but they would rarely carry only one knife as well. they would probably have 20 or more fastened to them. furthermore, a warrior would probably carry bow, sword and board, and dagger. even mages would probably carry a dagger, esspecially if they are 'adventurers'.
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on a side note, jugem, all of the issues you mentioned, are issues i am trying to deal with in Fawleh: Pheonix Pinion.
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also, i think final rune gives a good point, about them already having the best weapon, if they have any sort of expericence, not including enchanted/legendary weapons, and i think this deserves a fair amount of consideration as well.
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Post by The Smurf on Apr 2, 2005 0:47:46 GMT -5
weapon cutomization is one of my favorite things in an rpg!
-the smurf
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Post by christi on Apr 13, 2005 21:50:15 GMT -5
Just a quick update - I've been meaning to reply to this for awhile now, but it'll be a bit of a long post, and I haven't had a chance to sit down and get all of my thoughts collected. So, here's a bit of a concise version:
- I still haven't decided exactly what I'm going to do about this situation. I'll take everyone's suggestions into consideration (thank you for responding, those who did). All I know is that I want to do something different from the default, and I like the idea of each character only having one (or just a couple) main weapons. - I know that the concept of characters carrying a virtually limitless number of weapons is an acceptable breach of logic in a video game, but I'm actually trying to make my game as logical as possible... I don't plan on letting my characters walk into houses and pillage anything that isn't nailed down, for example. There are a few other very specific things I'm avoiding, but they'd be spoilers. (I've even devised a reason that the party gets money and items from monsters who have no reason to be carrying them - or a place to put them, for that matter. That's always irritated me with the games I've played, so I decided to come up with a logical explanation for it.)
Whew... that wasn't quite as concise as expected. Oh well, off to bed... I'll let you all know (and close the poll) as soon as I decide how I'm going to handle weaponry. Just wanted to say something here, as I've left this topic abandoned for way too long.
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Post by The Final Rune on Apr 15, 2005 10:49:10 GMT -5
I am really looking forward to seeing how you handle this issue and also to see some of your "logical" explainations.
I couldn't find an answer to this myself, so in my games only the humanoid enemies carry gold and items. All you get from battling monsters is EXP.
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Post by vespuleth on Apr 16, 2005 1:16:20 GMT -5
ive thought about doing it much like mmos do, where they give you an item that very well could have been carried by the monser (usually some body part) and then it is sold to the appropriate market for actually money.
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Post by The Final Rune on Apr 16, 2005 9:21:18 GMT -5
Yeah, I do stuff like that in my game. Eyeballs, fangs, scales, hides, meat, and bones can all get collected from various monsters and use to make stuff or be sold for currency.
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Lord Bob
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Post by Lord Bob on Jun 11, 2005 17:27:37 GMT -5
Crap, I didn't see "other".
I ended up voting for "Party carries infinite weapons - interchangable" even though weapons in my game are character specific. One charcter uses swords, the other uses guns. It made the most sense story-wise to do it this way, since one character is old, and the other one is a lot older (read: older than guns). There are a few "middle" weapons that either character can use, but most are character specific. Final Fantasy 9 was much the same way, and this is the method I prefer.
I should point out that I absolutlely hated the weapon customization of Final Fantasy 8, and Chrono Cross' wasn't too much better. Final Fantasy 10's was an improvement, but I strongly prefer the tried and true method of buying, finding, or winning many weapons and lots of armor. I think that weapon customization more often than not cuts down on the number of weapons available in the game, and I like a large inventory. Also, the Final Fantasy 8-10 method often involves completion of a ridiculous number of side quests and mini games (and I hate mini games) to get the items necessary to synth the best stuff.
I'm also one of those fanatics that lies to collect everything and do everything in the game. By this, I mean I like to get lots of everything, 99 if possible. Non-inventory weapons cut down on the fun of doing this. I know that most players are not half as obsessive compulsive as I am, but I actually enjoy going to town X and laying down 30,000,000g for 99 Enhancer Swords that I know I will never use. To me, it's just part of mastering the game.
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