noobie question about making a game

[lyhnmyu]

heyllo everyone ^.^


I am new to this site and just have a few questions about the game that I wanna make

now I dont expect you guys to tell me how it can be done ( unless you wanna be extra helpful ^.^). I (mainly) just wanna know if it can actually be done.

I have never made a game with any program before so im kinda new to this. But I have done some programming (web sites)

the first question is about the data transfer thing that is in this game. To my understanding, if your making a game and you run out of the game memory, not memory on your memory card, you can make another file on a different memory card and kind of link it with the first save. Which has all avalible memory on it. (meaning, the equivilent to some one who has just started a new game). Is this right or does it do something else?

next question is in reguard to the battle system. I've seen a couple of threads that said something about being able to have a mini game (im guessing) where you have to press /_\, [], X, O in the right time to complete this event. My question is, can you somehow incorporate this in the battle system? This is what I basically want to do, the battle starts, enemies show up, you pick attack, and a sequence of buttons (/_\, [], X, O....and maybe directional buttons if possible) show up on the screen. Now, these buttons only show up one at a time, but they each have a timer on them. So you have to press the correct button that it shows at the right time to continue your attack. Can this be done? (*crosses fingers*). Also, can I do the same thing with enemies in reguard to counter attacks? For example, if you are in the middle of your combo attack, the enemy has a % of countering your attack. If this happens (if you have a high enough agility and dex stat), you have a chance to counter their counter attack. Based on the same battle system i just explained, but the timer for this will be faster. Also, the button commands will not be random, they will be a certain set of buttons depending on what move you wish to do. Can this be done? (*crosses fingers AND toes*)

Thank you

P.S. (*also crosses eyes* >.<)

^.^V

[realitybites]

lyhnmyu said:

Can this be done?

Dangerous thing to ask of course it can be done, its just how you want to go about doin this is where it matters, as for the other stuff, try looking at Nash's 3rd Gen ACBS guide, on the main page there are a good bit of really helpful guides. Good luck and welcome to the boards!

[Neo Samurai]

I'm guessing you want to do this for the DBS? If so, it can be done. Once you understand the system better, you'll be amazed at how much you can do. However, before you get to work on your dream game, I think it's a good idea to get know how RPGM2 works a little better.

Try messing around with the various script commands and create a small game. Trust me, if you really want to create this game of yours, it's best to start out with something smaller before you jump into making it. I remember when I first got RPGM2 and I made that very mistake. I got really frustrated and threw it to the side for a while. So, be warned. This is a great tool and I'd hate to see potential game makers throw it away in frustration.

Anyway, welcome to the board.

[lyhnmyu]

I have another question,


I plan to have a nice bit of sidequest and mini-games. So I was thinking, if someone were to play my game, and do alot of quest. But then they stop playing for whatever reason, And come back to the game a few months later. But know they dont really remember where they are now. This is a problem. Is there some way I could create a log book or something that tells what they have done and what they are supposed to be doing now?

thank you

^.^v

[realitybites]

This is something, IMO your not ready to do, sorry, try messing around with the default stuff and you will quickly grasp the game in no time good luck!

[Neo Samurai]

Actually, it's not too complicated. Just create a variable that keeps track of your current point in the quest. Then, create a script like this:

Sort: [LogBookVariable]
Apply If+1
Message: blah blah blah
To End
Apply If +2
Message: blah blah blah blah
(Continue on for rest of the game.)
Script Branch End

...I don't know, maybe that is a little too complicated for you, but it's one of the simpler things you can do with the system. And, you can use that script for a custom menu or anything else.

Edit:

I know what you mean about leaving the game and coming back not knowing what to do. Luckily, Tales of Symphonia is one of the fewer games that has a Synopsis option that lets you view what you did so far and what you should do next.

[doyleman]

tales of symphonia/legendia/abyss all have that option.

but, its a good thing they do that because each of em takes between 60-80 hours to beat. without any sidequests.

[Doan the Nado]

The savefile thing is possible in three different ways (I believe):

1) Use "episodes". Some games are set up so that leveling and receiving items always happen the same way as the player goes through the story. If this is the case, once the first part ends and the player is in a spot that makes sense, you can require them to move on to the next episode. This will not preserve stats or items or anything in the player's save, but if you have the kind of game where you would know what the player has at that point, or you can introduce a good reason for the player to e.g. lose all his items, then this could work well for you. Simply copy your save over to a new slot, remove the stuff you no longer need, add the stuff for your next episode, make sure the stats are set appropriately, then on the first one, you'll need to add a special command to cause the player to begin on the new memory card.

2) Password system. Many people have suggested it, and I'm not sure if any have actually done it, but it would be theoretically possible to create a giant script which took each important variable and flag, one by one, and used the values to build up a password. At the end of the first game save, you would present the player with the password, and then they would have to start up the second game save and enter the password, where you will have another script that takes it apart, character by character, and adjusts the variable values appropriately. There are a few issues with this:
i) The encode/decode scripts may be really long, and may actually be one of the things that takes up a lot of that precious memory
ii) There is the chance that the player will figure out the password and make adjustments in order to increase their stats, money, progress, etc, or simply cause strange errors due to inconsistent data
iii) There is a chance for error. The longer the password, the greater the chance that the player will transcribe it or re-enter it incorrectly. See ii.
For these reasons, I don't think this option is very viable.

3) This is similar to (1), but it would allow the player to carry on to the new save while retaining information. The idea is that for two saves to be considered as the same game, they would have to have the same date/time. This would mean that you would have to adjust the internal time on your PS2 so that the second save's time matches the first save. Of course, you wouldn't want to do this until you are absolutely sure that you are done modifying save 2, because you would have to reset the time back to the same as save 1 every time that you wanted to save the 2nd slot. Also, there are consistency issues: you must make sure that all party members which are still in your game maintain the same number. If you take out member #2, you will have to insert some new member at that position so that others do not get messed up. The same goes for items, and there may be a few other such issues.

In short, there is no easy way to accomplish this, unless you have a case which falls easily into the first solution. In my mind, the better practice is to conserve memory where possible by combining common commands into a script and calling that script instead of repeating code in several places, being careful about the number of VFX and the complexity of maps, avoiding using excessive detail (unimportant objects and events) in the less important areas, and anything else you can think of that may save you some memory. Also, if you run out of memory, it's not too hard to go through and delete all the default stuff that you are not using. In actuality, if you are careful, I do not think that running out of memory will be an issue.

[lyhnmyu]

I have another question, What I want in this game is for the player to be able to customize there party the way they see fit. From the armor they wear to the stats they have. So what I wanna do is, when a player levels up, instead of having the game set to a give a certaint amount of points when they level, I wanna give them "leveling points" that can be used to advance a certain attribute, trait or skill. Can this be done?

P.S. I know you guys said earlier about not saying "can this be done" because (almost) anything can be made with this game, but I still just wanna know if it can be done so I wont be wasting my time trying to do it if it cannot.

P.S.S I will be posting my story in a couple of months. The only reason I didnt do it already is because I only have the main plot. No in-depth details about the worlds backround or characters backround (except for the main character).

But I can tell you the name of the game:

"Lost Fate"

Thank you ^.^v

[Doan the Nado]

lyhnmyu said:

I have another question, What I want in this game is for the player to be able to customize there party the way they see fit. From the armor they wear to the stats they have. So what I wanna do is, when a player levels up, instead of having the game set to a give a certaint amount of points when they level, I wanna give them "leveling points" that can be used to advance a certain attribute, trait or skill. Can this be done?

This can be done somewhat trivially, but it will require some knowledge of writing scripts to adjust member stats and modifying the DBS. There must be some script which runs when the player levels up. First, track down this script. Then you will need to change it to include the desired behavior (see below). Also, you will need to change each member's level-up info (in the Party Members menu, I believe) so that each stat changes by 0 when they level up.

Now, instead of its current behavior, the level up script will need to give the party member who is leveling up its appropriate amount of leveling points. This will be saved in one of the member's Normal Variables. This means that the script would look something like this:

Member Info: Load
Normal Variable 1 (181) = Normal Variable 1 + (points for gaining level)
Member Info: Save

So that is the easy part. Of course, the "points for gaining level" will have to somehow be calculated by you, so the script will be a little more complicated, but not much more.

Now the hard part is how to make this all work. You will need to create some kind of special menu with a multiple choice. The player will first select a party member to edit, then you will use a Message Window at the bottom to display the number of leveling points the player has. Also on screen will be another multiple choice menu where they choose what stat to modify. Based on the choice, you will want to, for example:

(Member Info loaded in order to display leveling points)
SB: Condition Normal Variable 1 > 4
Max HP = Max HP + 10
Normal Variable 1 = Normal Variable 1 - 5
Member Info: Save
SB: End
SB: Condition Normal Variable 1 < 5
Message "You do not have enough leveling points"
SB: End

Now that may not seem too hard, but you will have to write a similar script for each stat, and also the hard part will be getting all your multiple choice menus working properly so that the player can properly cancel out of them and so that everything is displayed in a reasonable fashion. This is not necessarily difficult, it's just a bit complicated, and if you don't have enough experience, it's easy to get mixed up and screw up somewhere. Basically, you will need to test it A LOT.

Also, personally, in order to make things clearer, I would personally put each stat modification in its own script. So your code would look like:

SB: Sort [User Choice]
Apply If +0 (MaxHP option)
Call: MaxHP
SB: To End
Apply If +1
...
SB: End

and then the MaxHP script could be written a bit more efficiently:

SB: Condition Normal Variable 1 > 4
Max HP = Max HP + 10
Normal Variable 1 = Normal Variable 1 - 5
Member Info: Save
Force Script End
SB: End
Call: NotEnough

and the not enough script (since it will be repeated in several places) is simply

Message "You do not have enough leveling points"


Hopefully those tips help you in what you're trying to do and also begin to show what I'm talking about when I say that if you focus on conserving memory throughout, you shouldn't have problems with running out. Basically, don't repeat expensive commands or sequences of commands unless you have no other option. It's better to break those things out into their own scripts and call them wherever necessary. This also has the pleasant side effect of making your code easier to read and understand, if you do it logically and name scripts appropriately.

[lyhnmyu]

Ok, I've taken a closer inspection of what Doan said about the memory. What he said (to my understanding) is that there is no real sure fire way to connect two parts of the game while keeping everything that the player has acquired in the first part, when going to the second. Well, now that brings up another question. About how many gameplay hours, can I put into a game. Which includes quest, battles and misc.(ie. things that really have nothing to do with the game, it would just be for pure fun).

P.S. (for Doan or anyone else who can explain it)

This is in reguards to the last two answers to my question about the saved game thing. Im trying to understand them alittle better. With the password thing, it is possible to have the player carry on the stats and armor and such, when you use this right? And the third answer I don't really see how making the save time the same could connect two parts (while saving everything the play has done in part 1). I'm pretty sure I'm missing something so could you please give me an example or something?.

I apologize for any confusion that I may have caused.

Thank you ^.^v

[Doan the Nado]

lyhnmyu said:

Ok, I've taken a closer inspection of what Doan said about the memory. What he said (to my understanding) is that there is no real sure fire way to connect two parts of the game while keeping everything that the player has acquired in the first part, when going to the second.

That is my opinion on the matter. That is, if by "sure fire" you mean "straightforward and reasonable to implement".

Well, now that brings up another question. About how many gameplay hours, can I put into a game. Which includes quest, battles and misc.(ie. things that really have nothing to do with the game, it would just be for pure fun).

This is highly variable. For example, once your battle system is all coded up (and it may just be the default battle system), it's pretty much done. There might be additional memory required to add more enemies, but in effect, you could have an infinite number of hours battling once you've created your battle system. I know, that's not very helpful, but I just want to make sure that it's clear that the length of gameplay in terms of time is highly dependent on the frequency and length of battles.

Battles aside, the possible number of gameplay hours is still variable. There are a few major factors that go into this:
1. Depth and breadth of dialogue
2. Level of detail in environments
3. Variability of quest
4. Complexity of side quests and minigames
5. Amount of VFX usage

1 - The more dialogue in the game, the more memory it will take up. Message Window commands are not cheap, so the more you have, the more memory will be consumed. Also, going along with 3, if NPCs say different things based on conditions, that can easily take up a lot of memory.

2 - This killed me in my first attempt at a game. When building your worlds, consider how much time the player will be spending there. If they will only be in a village for 20-30 minutes, your time and memory is better spent adding detail to a different area. It may look nice to have a large number of objects and people everywhere, but it is not really necessary, and if the characters do not help further the plot or help the player out in some way, they will quickly get frustrated anyways. It's better to just leave a worthless character out.

3 - If the player has a large effect on the course of the game, this will also require extra memory. This is because various scenarios will require scripts which select what should happen based on certain conditions. Do not worry too much about this area: if your game is highly variable, it may take away from the length of a single playthrough, but it opens up the possibility of the player wishing to play it again, effectively doubling the game's length.

4 - This is easy. The more side quests and mini games you have, and the more involved they are, the more space they will take up. Be sure to keep a balance between the main quest and the other stuff, for both memory's sake and because people choose to play your game based on the quest, not some slot machine mini-game that you have to win $10,000 in to free a captured party member (for example).

5 - This is a huge factor. The more VFX you use in your game, the less room you will have for other things. VFX can add a lot to a game, but it is important to try to reuse as much as possible and as with point 2, to consider how much a VFX will be used before making a hugely complex one. This may not apply to certain pivotal situations, i.e. it is completely reasonable to use a lot of VFX on the last boss even though it will only be there once. Just try to be conscious of how much you're using up throughout creation.

This is in reguards to the last two answers to my question about the saved game thing. Im trying to understand them alittle better. With the password thing, it is possible to have the player carry on the stats and armor and such, when you use this right?

Yes, it is definitely possible, but it will be a very long, hard-to-write script which may take up so much memory that it doesn't buy you much more gameplay for all the time you would be using to make it.

And the third answer I don't really see how making the save time the same could connect two parts (while saving everything the play has done in part 1). I'm pretty sure I'm missing something so could you please give me an example or something?.

Presumably, RPGM2 looks at the last save time on a game save. When the player saves their game, this save time is part of the save. Now, when the player tries to load their game, RPGM2 will check these two times to make sure they match.

So why does this matter? The idea behind two save slots is to finish everything on the first one. Perhaps after you have gotten this far, there will be some areas which will no longer be visited, some characters which will no longer appear, some VFX which will not be needed anymore, etc. So you would simply copy the save file to a new slot and then edit it, removing the stuff you no longer need and adding in the continuation of the quest. Of course, in the course of this editing, you will be saving this new game to its own slot, and this save will necessarily have a different save time than the first slot's save. Since you saved the first slot earlier and then copied it over and edited, the only way to make the save times match is to change the time on your PS2 and try to save them so that their save times match.

If their save times don't match, then the progress the player has saved from the first game save will not be able to be loaded with the second slot.

I hope that's all clear, although I'm sure it's not.

[lyhnmyu]

nope, ^.^ you pretty much answered all of my questions



And I thank you ^.^

one more question tho. How long was the biggest game you've ever seen/made?

[Neo Samurai]

I think the longest game I've seen so far (spans two game files) was Kumo Shinagi's Light Warrior: Yuji the Fighter. I've never completed it, but considering it's the only game that uses two game files, it probably is (and it's also one of the few completed traditional RPGs).

[Deleted]

Making their save times match? Sounds like a immense pain, considering that it has to be right down to the second...

The Password option may be a complicated option, but hey, if it worked for 2 Zelda games (Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons), then it could be worked out a bit for other games too...

As for the Episodes option, I was thinking that that particular option could be used (with an invisible auto-save, if that is in fact possible) to have a separate game file to run really complicated cutscenes or other cool stuff that would eat up too much space in the main game otherwise (of course, scripting such a thing would be a memory eater in and of itself, not to mention a collosal pain). Still, it would be nice if it could be pulled off by someone. I guess I should stick to actually getting the basics down pat first before even considering to attempt this gargantuan task. Name's Haru, by the way, thought I put a thought in for the next "great obstacle in the system" up in the air.

I'm glad that I signed up to this board, that I am.

[NASH7777]

Wow sorry I missed this topic for so long, I'm a busy man and have to memorize 207 lines by friday. Between that and school, and work, and everything else...yeah...

So anyways, customizing buttons for a mini game is actually really easy. There's a command to wait for the user to press a button either by number of frames or forever.

SB: Sort [User Input]
Apply If 0
{up button}
SB: To End
Apply If +1
{down button}
...
SB: End

pressing start in most places gives a lot of help. Even over simple variable or commands that you're not sure how they work.

I'm actually working on a combo system where it not only matters what buttons your press but in what timing you press them.
For example X..O..XX May be one combo but X..O..X..X may be another. It's not even that hard to make. Essentially you have looping 2 frame wait for button inputs, after each wait if you haven't pressed a button it adds to a variable keeping the interval of time. Afterwards it checks to see if the buttons pressed and intervals kept make a certain time.
For example, I could do the first combo two ways:

I could set it up so you get 8-12 frames for the X..O part, same for the O..X part, but have only 0-6 frames for the XX final part

The other way would be to let the first interval be be anything, allow the second interval to have to match the first with in a range of + or - 2, and the final range have half the interval of the first two with a range of -2 or +2.

You give them the range because people aren't exactly perfect with timing. I'm a percussionist and I play a lot of DDR so I do alright, but I've seen some people that are absolutely horrible.
This would also be a cool way to make a DDR Game.

[Deleted]

I don't know if I've posted this anywhere yet or not, but the biggest problem with trying to use two save files for one game via the save-time/time-save trick with RPGM2 (it's too bad, this was the perfect trick in RPGM1) is that the save-time on the files updates with every upload, download, and file-type conversion too (because it's saving the new data). It's not impossible, but it is improbable.

The password system is possible too, but also has it's downside in that it will make you put less in your game than you would otherwise if you didn't have to store everything (and yes, less does not necessarily mean worse - many professional games have most certainly proven that (or rather the opposite)).

Anyways, take it from me (I of all people should know) that you should just try to plan your game so that it's concise enough to where you have an actual shot at finishing it. I'd say ignore thinking about multiple save files for now and if it comes up, which I very highly doubt it will, then deal with it then because then you'll know for certain that you needed to make a password system and you'll have a better understanding of scripting.