A quick poll on game-overs

[KingSpoom]

I am currently in the process of developing my game over screen/s. Normally, when you lose the game, the screen would fade black and a simple picture displaying "game over" would appear and perhaps some sad/mistake music would play. There are many different styles, but I think this is by far the most common.

However, the style of game over I am referring to in the poll is one that tries to keep story continuity even in death. In a game where the goal is to meet your friends at a coffee shop, the game over screen might say "... but they never made it." Something to that effect is what I am talking about. Not simply content with telling you your game is over, they remind you that you also failed some goals/people/the planet.

Personally, I think each game should be judged on a case by case situation. The games overall tone (how serious it takes itself) is a major factor. Overall I think it is mostly good, but can also go bad. This probably happens because anyone putting that much more effort into their game want it to succeed.

So, what do you think about it?
Edit:It cut off the question which should be "Do games that go beyond a simple game-over screen seem sappy or cheesy? Also, I'm talking about game over screens, not screens at the end of the game.

[NASH7777]

I suggest giving the player a rating at the end of the game that will reflect how well they played the game. Like metal gear solid. Based off how many times you've died, how long it took, how many times you were seen, how many times you've saved, how much damage you took, etc....

[Deleted]

Good timing KingSpoom, I've been thinking about this lately too, and am still unsure though have an idea of what I may do.

I find that often times they do seem sappy, but it's not always bad. Its's hard to say, and I think it largely depends on where in the story they are. The only game I know that did this that I can remember is Saiyuki and it worked fine because they waited till the last chapter (4 total) to do it so the player'd know about all the evil guys' intentions and what not, and I didn't mind it any, in fact was surprised and intrigued when it first happened.

I know from personal experience that most of my game overs I feel were not my fault, but rather something unlikely happened and screwed me just barely, or the creator didn't balance the game well, or a sudden no-save chance for a while hard-ass boss fight caught me off guard, etc.; and I hate losing progress in games and having to re-do the exact same thing, so a long, dramatic 'you've failed the game and the world's over' scene irritates me a ton most of the time. Hell, usually I get annoyed just if the game over-reset takes longer than it needs to. The way my game's planned and will be set-up there are save points before all the bosses, so what I was thinking I'd do is heal them up fully and send them to the location of their last save with everything they'd done already done, or something to that effect; basically, I'd just be quickening up the excessively long 'reset ps2, slowly load game, load my save on it, go through the same stuff in the game again' phase and letting them try their hand at the boss fight right away, or keep the money/skills they've learned from battling, or items from townspeople, etc. This way too, I won't be as afraid to make tough boss fights later in the game, because it'll take like 30 seconds to get right to the start of the fight again.

It's hard to say what'll work best, but I tend to prefer cutting out whatever'd be excessive for the player (*cough* plug for my custom menu *cough*).

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this too, KingSpoom.

[vespuleth]

im generally more for the simple 'game over' screens. they are efficient. if someone puts an elaborate game over screen in, the rest of the game better be moreso engrossing, or i will count it a waste of resources. and they tend to be sappy, yes. thats my $.02.

[Dungeon Warden]

I agree that Game Over screens should be quick and easy to by-pass. On the other hand if something humorous happens to take my mind off dying - that might be okay. Just make it easy to skip if you have just died for the sixteenth time in the same battle.

[Doan the Nado]

I like the idea you gave of a small message. Even a brief (15 seconds?) scene would be okay, as long as it didn't get repetitive. For what it seems you have in mind, I think it could work well.

[WarDragon]

I hate game over's that take at least 10 minutes just to end.

[Dungeon Warden]

10 minutes? I don't think I've ever seen a game over screen last more then a minute - at least not since the Commodor 64 (and most of that was load time). What game has a 10 minute + game over screen?

[NASH7777]

Question: Are we talking about game-overs when you die, or when you beat the game? I think some of us have been thinking opposite things...

[Dungeon Warden]

I thought he made it clear in the first post that it was game over screens when you die that was the topic of discussion. End of game scenes can last over an hour in some RPGs - which is okay if they are done well and tie up a lot of loose ends.

[KingSpoom]

William - Yeah, that sounds like a decent thing to do. Tell the player they will start at the last save they were at (for boss battles only?) with everything ready to go again. Then you just gotta make sure they can't screw themselves over... Which reminds me, I'm gonna make another poll on the subject.

I think I am going to do a little more than a gameover screen, just because I have a theme for my game that easily lends itself to it.

[Deleted]

Cool, glad I could help. ;D

And, yeah, I'm doing it everywhere like that, except save points'll usually be on the map, in churches in cities (or something like that), at the entrances to places, and before boss fights. I figure most people'll lose on the boss fights only, but who knows.

Edit: Your idea of just a message sounds good, and easy, like Doan said, and sounds good to me. I might have done that, but most of my party losing'd just be 'You got beaten and killed, good going' or something like that.

Are you going to post about your battle system. I remember yours sounding very original, innovative, and interesting with how you could combine various moves in different orders to increase damage and stuff (but not as simple and obvious as BoF4), like freezing him then attacking him physically (and probably a lot more like dowsing them and burning them or surrounding them with water then zapping them). I'll bet you'd raise up some awareness by doing so, and most people here weren't at the boards last I heard you talk about your game (I think just you, me, DW, Ves, BK, Cloud, and Ogrenix).

[BloodKnight]

Hey KS.

Anyway, Game Over screens should be quick, but I wouldn't mind seeing some innovative scenarios. I personally plan on having an alternate scenario, where you're given a choice to give up or retry. When something like the world blowing up happens, you won't be given a choice, and just get sent back to the loading screen. I hope someone makes a humorous game over screen.

*Imagines a "LIEK OMG UR DEAD!!shift+111" screen in someone's game*

[vespuleth]

i liked the 'you got beaten and killed, good going' one...

[Draygone]

I think Chrono Trigger did this if you went into Lavo's Core and lost, where it showed Lavos doing it's attack and the military failing, and then a screen saying something along the lines of "But They Couldn't Change A Thing". It was really cool, but it was only for that special occasion. And it was probably only done when you tried fighting him at an impossible stage (I tried, and he did one attack that did 9999 damage when my party was between 500-600 Max HP). In Paper Mario 2, there were two decisive points in the game (one optional; good thing I saved right before I tried it) where making the obviously wrong decision resulted in a small event right before the game over appeared.

I too have been thinking of doing something beyond a simple game over screen. Not nearly as expansive as the Game Over in Chrono Trigger, and it would only happen in a small portion of the game where the small event that would happen would make sense.

[KingSpoom]

William - I would post more detail about my battle system here, but I'd rather people be surprised when it comes out. There are a lot of little unique touches I've added to it, and all together it sort of morphs the way combat is handled. ... but, I would still rather everyone be in the dark about my story and battle system until I release my game. It would provide the best results.

On a side note, I hope you guys don't see my game over screen too many times.

[WarDragon]

DungeonWarden said:

10 minutes? I don't think I've ever seen a game over screen last more then a minute - at least not since the Commodor 64 (and most of that was load time). What game has a 10 minute + game over screen?

I don't remeber the name but it was an imported game i had played for the ps2. It was a very strange rpg.

[Neo Samurai]

Placing unique messages rather than just "Game Over" makes the feel of the game more humorous/sad/whatever.

What I like seeing are different messages depending on how you were killed. For example, in King's Quest VI, whenever you died, a different message would come up (Can't remember what they were. It's been a while since I played that game). They were really corny, but they added a little bit more flavor to the game.

So, IMO, writing a message rather than just the cliched words "Game Over" makes the feel of the game a little bit more interesting for the player.