Determining joining character levels

[KingSpoom]

I've been reviewing my skill/spell system lately, trying to decide if I should make them set in stone or to offer the player a choice. I'm not making a job system, but I am still going to offer a set of choices. They can probably be referred to as classes, or specializations... but that was just how I got to be asking this question...

Over the course of the game, characters join the party. The problem (or lack of definition) comes when I try to decide which level they should be.

1: About the same as the party... This would mean that I would take the average of current members levels, or some such math function, and apply it to who you get. This option streamlines gaining new members, as you don't have to immediately go out and catch them up.

2: Everyone should start out the same level... meaning that (for instance) everyone starts at level X. When you gain a new member, they will always be at level X no matter how far into the game you are. The main benefit of this is that everyone would have an equal chance to beleivably tailor the character to their needs.

3: A set level that acts as a guide for players. I'm fond of this option myself. This option basically sets the level of a particular member equal to the level you -should- be at when you are able to obtain them. Just picked up a level 15 mage at level 10? You have some catching up to do. Found a level 30 archer at level 55? You can realize you are ahead of yourself.

4: Other... I don't know what this means yet, you tell me.

I still need to do a couple calculations myself. My unique experience table grants me a lot of options here. Even if my choice was already selected, I'd still want to know what you think.

[Dungeon Warden]

The problem with starting new members at the parties current level is that it means all characters need to be balanced so that a character doesn't join and imbalance the game because of the high level they join at. If the characters are the same, why would you want a new member in the first place. It is harder to control game balance with this option.

All characters start at level X. The problem with this is that if the party is far ahead of the game, new members will be so under powered no one will want to use them. As way around this is to give new members higher stats to compensate but this isn't much different than option 3.

Starting at a set level gives you control of the power level the party gets throughout the game. If the player is rushing through, new members will replace weaker members that haven't had a chance to develop. If the party is too tough, they may ignore new members unless they being something new to the game.

Other options include starting new members at a level equal to the lowest member's level. This forces players hurring through the game to spend some time building levels, but the power players won't use the new characters.

Set the level at the average level or a specific level; whichever is higher, or lower, depending on which kind of player you want to cater to. This gives you some flexability but still has limits.

Make evey character different, so that all characters are important regardless of their starting level. You can use any level method with this and control the power level at specific parts of the game.

Characters come and go. Characters join at the level they need to be to get the player throught the current story line. Power gamers don't like this because they can't build their party, but it gives you control over how powerful the party is at each major plot line. Speed gamers will find the game easier - which may be good or bad depending on why they are speed players in the first place (ex. some poeople like the challenge of beating enemies that are much more powerful than the party).

Ultimately, it depends on your game. Play test, play test, and play test until you get the balance you need to make the game challenging, make every new character worth adding to the party, and make both speed and power gamers happy with the end product (while keeping the average gamer in mind as well).

Good luck!

[Doan the Nado]

I pretty much agree with DW here. One more alternative is to have all party members in the game level up right along with your party. Some games (like Chrono Cross and Kingdom Hearts) have all characters level up, regardless of whether or not they are in your party at the current moment. If your game is like that, this option could be viable.

Just to let you know... I voted for the same level as the party. That seems the best to me.

[Deleted]

I like the way Doan said the most and that's what I'm doing. It's also good, I'd say, to make it so everyone strengthens equally - regardless of if they're alive or not during boss fights/etc. Otherwise, I'd say I think it's best for the new characters to join at the leader's (main character's) level because the leader is likely to be just a few levels above the rest of the team, making the new character be slightly better at the moment but also not stay that way for long. This'll allow players to want to use a new character some because they're slightly better at the moment, but also allow them to want to use their old characters because they're too lazy to unarm and arm the characters or they like the old characters, and both choices are appealing (I think FF7 did this). This is similar to number 1, but a little more specific, so one vote for other is by me and I'm referring to this.

Edit: I'm not a fan of the set level unless the levels don't vary much (like CT or TO:LUCT), but if they're like Star Ocean 2 where the level people are at at different points ends up being ridiculously apart from each other it's not good because this will always render certain characters useless or ineffective (whether it's the new one or the old ones). One way to say it is: The player should have to live with their choice to either speedily go through or random battle a ton and get the proper benefits/punishments (I tend to be one of the punishees ). It all depends how it's done though, since in CT and TO:LUCT it was hardly noticeable that they had set joining levels (I'm not even sure about CT).

[vespuleth]

id say that some average is the best way to go. that way the character is neither higher or lower then the other characters, and no one gets dismissed based on level. this also gives the joinees specialties a moment to shine, because their talents will become more important when deciding to keep them around.

[NASH7777]

Yes, I agree to the whole Average level of the team. It also promotes wanting to raise your team up evenly so when you get there you don't have maybe 2 level 30 charachters and a level 12 one. Which would average level 24. Where as if you would have balanced them out you could have got to have an avrg level of 24 since the lower levels are easier to come by with experience points, it would then be the better deal.

[BloodKnight]

I say to have a default level for each character, and then have extra levels added every time a party member levels up. Just a suggestion.

[Deleted]

If the game doesn't call for every party member to be used/leveled the player shouldn't be expected to!!!(evil)

This'll actually just make the player always use the same exact party members the whole way through the game and leave them no appealing-enough choice to switch to using a new party member.

[Draygone]

Yeah, but that pretty much requires never having a point where the party splits apart in some way (whether planned or the guy just kidnapping the girl).

[Tinbok]

I agree with ya there Draygone. I hate it when games do that because I have a tendancy to not level some people. Then, some event happens and I have to use the person I didn't level. I have to end up leveling them which takes hours and HOURS... (shivers) No thank you.

Anyways, about the leveling system. I like your idea King. You can know if you're ahead or need to level up some more. As for me, I can't think of anything. I probably won't have to for a couple of weeks. But as for now, I think I'd just go with option 2. I may change it though when it's time.

[Neo Samurai]

I think that a level as a guide to the player is best.

Not only is it easier for the designer, but it can save you from getting the crap kicked out of you when you're fighting a boss.

Though some may push other characters aside, I believe it is always smartest to level all of your characters when you have the chance. I find walking around on the world map near a city/town/village to be very helpful when you're behind. Fighting common enemies may just save your life in the long run.

[vespuleth]

to me, if you dont level someone, and then come upon an event in the game where that character is needed, its your own fault.

i think requiring all party members makes balancing a must. but if you do this, youd better make a reason for each party member to be around. they had better be unique.