The Bad Guy Thread

[DarkHorizons]

I thought I'd create a little thread about our villians.
Maybe some questions to flesh them out or to understand their twisted ways of thinking.

1)What is the plot of the antagonist?
2)Is it possible to make the player "love" the villian more than the hero?
3)You know you really wanna see the villians main plan come to fruition, right?
4)The villians lackeys. Cooler than the Villian?
5)After all the hype, build up and power monging, who misses the villian when he loses?

[DarkHorizons]

Mine:
1)What is the plot of the antagonist? Well we all can't come right out and describe the sinister deed our Baddie will converse in our games, but even tho it's been done a million times, the "save the Earth" plot seems the most intriguing.
2)Is it possible to make the player "love" the villian more than the hero? Some will agree that Sephiroth was much cooler than Cloud, in FF7. I mean you're investing time, effort and using the dark recesses of your mind to make this guy interesting. I think creating a villian that the player likes, because of his personality, and hates, because of his plot, makes certain games stand out.
3)You know you really wanna see the villians main plan come to fruition, right? Imagine an ending where you lose ,and you see the villians outcome.
4)The villians lackeys. Cooler than the Villian? Lots of RPG's have sub-bosses that seem cooler than the main baddie. I'd like to use this "sub" to maybe join the good guys party or at least stand up against the main baddie.
5)After all the hype, build up and power monging, who misses the villian when he loses? I know after my game is over, all the twisted thoughts, evil dreams and dark dwellings of my main baddie will be missed. It's a good thing we have sequels.

[Dungeon Warden]

1) What is the plot of the antagonist?

A. The goal of the antagonist is to keep the protagonist motivated to continue, although he is usually trying to do the opposite. My antagonists goal is power, but not control of the world. He has more personal problems to deal with.

2) Is it possible to make the player "love" the villian more than the hero?

A. I'm sure this is possible, but not very wise. There should be a point in which the player must defeat the antagonist and by this point the player should hate him and want him to die.

3) You know you really wanna see the villians main plan come to fruition, right?

A. A great story can include the villian's plans succeeding, but not at the falling of the hero. It is at the climax, when the villian seems to have won that the hero suddenly i) realizes the villans weakness, ii) understands a clue he was told, iii) overcomes his fear, iv) is saved by someone he saved earlier, v) etc. so he can defeat the villian and/or ruin his plans. This is the key moment of suspence that is often lacking in RPGs and many novels. The worst thing to do is have the hero win through no effort of his own (a magic weapon or an ally) or doing something he should have done before.

That said, my game will have several outcomes, including failure on the part of the hero - but the story will continue with an extra quest to stop things from getting worse.

4)The villians lackeys. Cooler than the Villian?

A. This is often the case because the hero deals with the lackeys throughout the story and usually only sees the villian at the end.

My game will have several lackeys that the hero needs to defeat. Each one is different and might be considered cooler than the main villian. That is still being worked on.

5)After all the hype, build up and power monging, who misses the villian when he loses?

A. I hope that with all the build up and suspence through out the game, defeating the villian will give the player a sense of relief and a desire to play again. My game is story driven and should work to build a connection between the hero and the villian.

[KingSpoom]

1: The plot of the antagonist is to *beep* we now interrupt this terribly interesting broadcast with an emergency warning system test. Remember, if this was not a test, you would hear this *narrator screams*

2: I think so. I also thing, contrary to DW, that you can like the villian more than the Hero even after you defeat him. It all depends on how the plot turns him out. If he tries some cowardly tactic, or inhumanely thing to win... of course you won't like him anymore. However, if he maintains his attitude, there isn't a reason to like him any less after his defeat.

3: I had always thought about the "what ifs". Generally they are bleak though. What if kefka had created his monument to non-existence? That would be that, and history would end. I do think that a game in which the Villian was right about what would happen... and all the danger/killings he put people through turned out worth it... I think that would be a decent ending. Maybe pan out to show the dead heroes in the afterlife reflecting on their mistakes as the credits start to roll.

4: Never! ... at least not forever. Lackey's usually lack (heh) staying power. They are cool for a time, but by definition they aren't meant to stay that way. In the end, a lot of the best material is used on the main villian... so of course he will seem like the coolest.

5: Well, you assume the villian loses (and implies that he dies). Generally, I don't *miss* villians. Villians are cool to start, then they usually become static until nearing the games end. The end is better than the middle, and the beggining is usually better than the end. This means that the ending turns out good for me, as the conclusion brings to rest any of the questions/doubts/things I had been thinking about. It isn't to say I would have wanted to see more of him, it's just saying I would have liked to see more of him only if it would have been as interesting as the start/end of the game. The cool thing about animes is that the MAIN bad guy can become a good guy and start the cycle all over again. All that really has to happen at the end of the game to end the conflict is the changing of one's outlook on life. Death isn't the only answer.

[Draygone]

1) The main villain's plans? I can't tell you that. You're not supposed to find out until past halfway through the game.

2) The main villain being cooler than the hero? It's possible, but I'm not trying to do that. I want the player to like the villain's methods to achieve his goal, but he's not supposed to be cool. But he's also not a villain you'll find boring, I hope. Then again, I'm not really trying to make any of the characters "cool". Just interesting.

3) The main villain win? It's cool when that happens, though you would have to hope that there's still a reason you'd want to stop him. I mean, perhaps his plans of destruction are just the start of his evil plans. My villain is able to get a foot in, but that's it.

4) The villain's lackeys cooler than the villain? For one, he'd HATE to be called the villain's lackey. For another, you really don't get much of a chance to find out. The main villain has too much control over what the lackey does.

5) Missing the villain? Heck, no. When he's defeated, it's "I've had enough of him, good riddance."

[LunarMoon2]

1)What is the plot of the antagonist?
Spoilers Galore
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His first goal is to kill a man he once saw as his hero yet later finds out that he was the one who killed his brother and everyone else from his village when he was a child in front of his eyes. This is actually only a side reason to why he killed him. The empire he controlled was starting a World War and he felt that he needed to end it as quickly as possible, though unfortunately he tried to slaughter all civilians in the city who either got in the way or could possibly be affected by his propaganda (everyone over the age of 1). Soon after that, his goal switches to trying to destroy all Neos in order to keep the discriminated Arus from receiving the same fate as his race; almost complete extinction on the planet. He become a savior to them as he offers financial support, education, and a dooms day evasion method for them, a giant airship called the Ark. He decides to gravitate the moon closer to the planet, flooding the surface, killing all who fail to escape, and causing life to start over again. You can probably tell that he’s a big mythology freak.

2)Is it possible to make the player "love" the villian more than the hero?
Yes, anything is possible.

3)You know you really wanna see the villians main plan come to fruition, right?
He actually ends up winning in 2 of the endings (there are multiple endings), which have sort of a Planet of the Apes feel.

4)The villians lackeys. Cooler than the Villian?
Not the main villains lackies in my opinion.

5)After all the hype, build up and power monging, who misses the villian when he loses?A few of the Arus who served in the rebellion and many of those who received financial support.

[The Smurf]

For those who don't know me, i'm smurf90. My villain is Genesis, the king of evil gods (you can read about it in the "dark angel (working title)" topic.

1)What is the plot of the antagonist?

Genesis wants to take over, and the humans deny him every time. Not gonna go into too much detail, but the basic "take over the world" cliche.

2)Is it possible to make the player "love" the villian more than the hero?

Genesis, no. Genesis is what one might refer to as the "gay villain". He's the uncool villain.

3)You know you really wanna see the villians main plan come to fruition, right?

No, cause that means you lose and have to start over and do you want to go through all that again?

4)The villians lackeys. Cooler than the Villian?

Hell yes. Probably cause there are so many in my game. I purposely make the littler underlings much cooler.

5)After all the hype, build up and power monging, who misses the villian when he loses?

Nobody. We can miss Demise or Pharaoh (mini-er bosses) but never Genesis. He wasn't cool enough.


-the smurf

[Draygone]

3)You know you really wanna see the villians main plan come to fruition, right?

No, cause that means you lose and have to start over and do you want to go through all that again?

He means plotwise. There have been some games where the villain succeeded in destroying/ruling the world as part of the story, and the game continued after that. Heck, in most of the Final Fantasy games, the villains almost always are able to succeed in each of their plans, until near the end when it's time for the heroes to start winning and beat the final boss. And in one of the Final Fantasy games, the villain succeeds in causing mass destruction on a global scale in a way that most villains can only dream of.

[The Smurf]

in that case, the villain's plan has already happened even before the game started.

[Draygone]

Yeah, technically I guess so, but you wouldn't know that until you saw it happen.

[The Smurf]

good point

[Doan the Nado]

1) My antagonist plot is also a secret, but the thing is, my game calls for many different possible plots, and therefore many different antagonists.

2) There may be a couple antagonists who can be loved more than the hero. All of the characters in my game are supposed to have human qualities, so there may be some antagonists who are more admirable than the main character, but in the end, the player still has to be behind the main character, because it would leave a sort of dumb feeling if you're fighting for something you don't believe in.

3) The antagonists' plans may come to fruition in a couple of endings, but the player will never want to see it happen.

4) My villains don't really have "lackeys" other than soldiers and such fighting under them. They aren't at all "cooler" because all they do is take orders.

5) I don't think my villains will be missed, unless the party later on realizes that they defeated a villain who wasn't really one or for the wrong reasons.

[Dark Knight Of Lodis]

1)What is the plot of the antagonist?
The antagonist in my game is a wizard who in the beginning of the game is a respected lord serving the king of Morocia (the good kingdom) against Phalia (the bad kingdom). Eventually he turns after learning the power he can get from getting all of the magic stones, and becomes a third kingdom in the war.


2)Is it possible to make the player "love" the villian more than the hero?
It is definately possible to make the player "love" the villain more than the hero, but I believe the best games are where you like who you are more than who you are against. In my game, you absolutely hate the antagonist for his treachery and ruthlessness.

3)You know you really wanna see the villians main plan come to fruition, right?
Some of the best games are where the villain's plan is successful, but the hero miraculously defeats it anyway. In my game, I don't think anyone would support the antagonist.

4)The villians lackeys. Cooler than the Villian?
I actually have two of the villains lackeys that might be seen as cooler than the main antagonist. First, his right-hand man is a knight dressed completely in blood red armor who is just as ruthless and evil as the antagonist himself. Second, one of the villains elite warriors, who actually serves with the right-hand man, joins the good guys after trying to redeem himself for what he has done.

5)After all the hype, build up and power monging, who misses the villian when he loses?
I think everyone misses the villain, because even though you may hate him, he drives you to keep going, and keeps things interesting. The villain becomes a part of you.

[BlackBoxx]

Hmm... I really want to post on this, but I don't want to ruin anything for anyone who plays my game... But I'll give it a shot.

1) My antagonist is plotting to cause major terraforming across the planet. No, It's not because he's a jerk. My villain will have some depth.

2). I don't want people to love my antagonist more, but just as much. I really think he's a good villain (not as in a good guy, I know that might not make sense).

3). Actually, the game starts out with the terraforming already in progress. I have several possibilities for how it can end.

4). The antagonist's "lackeys" will be more like trusted allies for the antagonist, so they will be just as cool... If I can manage to pull that off. Heh.

5). I think people will miss my antagonist. Thats is, if I can portray him the way i imagine him.

[Deleted]

1) ...
2) Yes, and I would count on it happening if the 'hero' is a silent protagonist (meaning with no believable motives or understandable thoughts/reactions).
3) ...
4) For my game, probably not. I focus a lot more on the antagonist than his underlings, and some of his underlings are just there to be a boss (basically), because I didn't want the bosses to just be 'hey look, a big monster appeared out of nowhere and we have to kill it to advance farther'.
5) ...

[Draygone]

Yeah I know what you mean. If there's no good reason for a boss to appear, then there shouldn't be one.

[Neo Samurai]

I agree as well. The big monster appearing out of no where makes sense. The bosses in my game will probably be human or a being similiar to one.

[vespuleth]

1) none of my plot lines have a main badguy. my current work, PP, may or may not have a specific bad guy.

2) it would be an interesting game that made the 'villain' the hero, the guy obviously doing the right thing, and the person the story rotates around.

3) i cant imagine a single interesting game where the villain succeeds. i usually walk away from them saying 'whats the point'. that being said, i may try to employ this plot vice at some point.

4) i cant usually stand lackeys.

5) dont know, see question 1

[Draygone]

Usually if the villain is able to succeed, there's still some reason that the heroes would still want to defeat him. Perhaps his great evil deed is a means to an end. Like if a villain was able to make that asteroid hit the planet, which destroyed much of the life on the planet; something that the heroes were trying to prevent. And yet it would turn out that the asteriod left a gaping hole that went deep into the planet, and the villain intended to go down that hole and used his power to cause a chain reaction that would cause the world to explode. Why he'd want to destroy all life in the first place is another story, but in the mean time, you'd certainly want to stop him from succeeding in his ultimate goal.