Variable 23 (Lose Turn Count) Customizing?

[Rodak]

OK. Next project.

I was making a spell which waits a certain number of turns and then kills the enemy (no save possible).

Can Variable #23 (Lose Turn Count) be inverted to Win Turn Count?

It would be simpler than making a new variable and an indirect effect which would track the number of turns left, and then kill. I only say that because, while I'm getting better with Direct Effects, I still have absolutely no experience with Indirect Effects.

But, if I must, I'll make it an indirect effect. The only reason I'm trying to avoid it is because I anticipate trouble making an Indirect Effect that triggers another Indirect Effect for my first Indirect Effect. Sometimes I have problems nailing these things together smoothly.

And I have not even gotten to the abilities for 2 whole classes I created!

One thing at a time though.

Thanks for any help on this idea.

Peace.

[Dungeon Warden]

Can Variable #23 (Lose Turn Count) be inverted to Win Turn Count?

Er, no since you win when the enemy is defeated there is no need for one. Remember, lose turn count has the unusual effect of ending the battle without either side dying (althought the party does die temporary).

All you need to do is use an ordanary variable that starts when the spell is cast (or skill is used) and takes effect X number of turns later. This is much easier to do as a indirect effect since you would have to rewrite the battle system to include this variable otherwise.

Don't be afraid of Indirect effects. They aren't much different then direct effects. There is a lot of cool things you can do with them so they are well worth learning.

[Rodak]

DungeonWarden said:

Don't be afraid of Indirect effects. They aren't much different then direct effects. There is a lot of cool things you can do with them so they are well worth learning.

Oops, I thought the party died with that variable (even though a re-read of your FAQ specifically states otherwise).

As for learning Indirect Effects; I know I shall have to do so in order to finish much of what I have in mind, but I thought that this one was not a good place to start. I often over-think and over-complicate everything at first, then whittle it down to something manageable. As you may have noticed. And since I was not really sure where to start with a spell like that, I piled all possible solutions into one big heap and tried to use them all instead of just picking one.

I waste more memory units that way!

I'll try it the way you suggested.

Thanks.

Peace.

[Deleted]

I know:

Make a 'Condition' Indirect Effect. Put a script/event to display text like '___'s been doomed!" in the 'New' and 'Combined' slots of it. Check the option to make it 'Battle' only.

Now the customized part:

Make a script/event and put it into one of the Indirect Effect's various 'Turn' slots (press start on them and choose what you want, they have various ones like before action, end of action, etc.).

The script should be like this:

(I can explain any of this if you need me to)
Battle: Substitute Target Attribute for Variable
(decide on a certain BattleVariable others than 0 to use for this)
Data: BattleVariableX = BattleVariableX + 1
Script: Condition: BattleVariableX = 5 (this 5 is the number of turns till they die)
Target: Status: Action: Apply: KO/Death
Script: Condition: End

I'm quite sure this is all you need to, since I believe everyone's BattleVariables reset to 0 when they exit a battle. If not, just reset their BattleVariableX to 0 in the script mentioned in the first paragraph of my post.

[Rodak]

Thanks WillimaKirk.

Battle Variables. Maybe they are why I had a slow start to this idea. But normal variables should have worked too, so I'll just blame "the Indirect Effect's various 'Turn' slots" for confusing me.

I overslept this morning (yes it is possible to have overslept at 5:20 AM) so may not be able to test this for a day or so. Real life getting in the way of fantasy again.

I'll let you know how it works or what troubles I ran into.

Peace.

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
I KNEW IT...
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

I knew that this was going to be weirder than usual.

Please forgive this question if I am just being stupid (yet again), but I can not figure out how to attatch this Indirect Effect to an ability. It seems to want a Direct Effect before it "ungrays" the Indirect Effect option in the Abilities Editor.

I could not find an example of an ability with an indirect effect to use as a guide. Granted I did not look at all of them (there are over a hundred), but the ones that I thought would be Indirect Effects were all direct effects. Everything from Blind to Numb to Sleep were all done with Direct Effects. At least in the ability editor.

I found no reference to this in the copy of Dungeon Warden's FAQ I printed from work, but it may fall in a page break with a missing page.

I hate to sound like a beginner, but I am lost here.

Should I just create a "null" Direct Effect so I can get to the Indirect Effect slot in the Abilities Editor?

I'll try this while I give this post time to generate a response. I wish the board would somehow indicate if the most recent post has been edited. This may just get buried and I'll either start an "Abilities with Indirect Effects" thread, or possibly send my first private message to either WilliamKirk (thanks for providing the start to this idea) or our hero, Dungeon Warden.

Fortunately I work on so many different things at once that I can always go pound my head on something else, or find some other plate glass window through which to put it.

Thanks for any help with this quandry.

Peace.

[Deleted]

Yes, you'd probably want to make a Direct Effect that does nothing but check/consume the MP and display a visual any ways. The reason why you need a Direct Effect for the Ability is that the Direct Effect determines where in the battle menu the Ability is put in (Offense, Defense, Other). Just copy a different Direct Effect you're using and un-put the scripts/events that are in the Direct Effect's 'Success' and 'Success Check' Advanced slots. (Don't worry, I just made some Abilities like this today myself and they work perfectly)

[Rodak]

First, thanks for posting something, I was worried my last edit would go unnoticed as the situation seemed to be resolved before that was placed.

The proffered script did not quite work when used as suggested. I tried breaking it up. Putting bits in the Direct Effect and other variations, but I was literally "shooting in the dark" and, not surprisingly, missed.

I have no idea why I am having so much trouble with this one. Many times I simply need to wait for the weekend so I can blow a couple hours of focused effort. During the week I only get about an hour after work and an hour before (if I get up early enough). It's hard for me to get new things done that way with this system.

Anyway, I'll try the copy and paste, but I had little luck so far and think this is another weekend project.

That makes two shelved projects so far. Like every other aspect of this game it will all probably fall into place at once and then I'll be making effects (direct and not) for abilities, skills, and even items with ease.

I think our Common Script Database needs a tutorial on these things! But that could just be my ego insisting that if I am having trouble, then surely most others have trouble too.

In the words of the immortal Zaphod Beeblebrox: "If there's anything more important than my ego around here I want it found and shot immediately!"

That's from the Book and TV series... I have not seen the film yet.

Peace.

[Dungeon Warden]

You need a direct effect to Target someone. An indirect effect is a condition that occurs after the initial attack. Look more closely at numb , blind, sleep, etc. and you will see that they are actually indirect effects that use direct effects to strike a target. I'm sure when you have time to study them more closely you'll be able to figure it out.

[Rodak]

So, if I have the general idea right, you make a direct effect out of a script which invokes a "condition" status.

The condition status is made in the indirect effect editor and is not referenced in the Ability Editor when you want to inflict it on an enemy in battle, only in the srcipt that the direct effect calls.

Then is there a good use for the indirect effect slot in the ability editor? I blame it for my confusion! If it is not used, why is it there? For a second indirect effect (like maybe a venom that poisons and puts to sleep) maybe?

Ahhhh, I'll figger it out this weekend!

Peace.

[Dungeon Warden]

You don't need to reference the condition (although you can), just putting it in the slot is enough.

The slot is for when you want a direct effect (ex. damage) to occur along with an effect (ex. stone) so that a direct effect and indirect effect can be used together (note that these effects could also be used separately as well). In the case of something like sleep that only causes sleep, the direct effect can inflict the condition (sleep) instead of doing damage.

You could cause two conditions this way. Since the system is modular, you can mix and match effects once they are created. As long as there is a direct effect (mainly for targeting), you can combine effects as much as you want. See Add Thunder for an example of adding a direct effect to a direct effect.

I'm sure this is all clear as mud. Spend time with it and it should start to make sense.

[Rodak]

DungeonWarden said:

I'm sure this is all clear as mud. Spend time with it and it should start to make sense.

Yup, clear as mud.

But mud can be made into mudpies. And with practice mud can be made into bricks. Get some straw and you can build homes out of mud. It just takes time, effort, and an absurd sense of grabbing a bad joke and running with it.

I'll make something out of the mud you offer, I have no doubt.

Thanks.