Direct Effects: Turn Start/End Question

[Rodak]

In a recent post I made in the Common Script Database (about making the enemy run away) I asked this question about Direct Effects and how they work.

Since it would be inappropriate to respond there (without posting a contribution script as well!) I am asking here.

The question is long and involved and best read here.
It is reply #6 in that thread.

It involves the difference between Turn Start and Turn End in the Direct Effect Editor and why I can't turn off a flag at Turn End when it seems the logical place to do so.

I did resolve the issue. Turn Start worked. But I do not understand why Turn End did not. I feel that understanding that will deepen my understanding of the whole system in general.

Any help would be, as always, appreciated.

Peace.

[Dungeon Warden]

Looks like I need to add a correction to my FAQ.

The fact is that Turn End is a misnormer. A better name would be Start Effect. Note it's position in the order of events. Turn End occurs between Turn Start and Check Start. It is the place you put commands you want to occur weither the effect is successful or not. I suppose it is called Turn End because it occurs as the character finishes his turn (but before the effect affects the target). A good place to put a comment from the character before/as he attacks ("Take that you Fiend").

I'll add this to my next update. There are some things that are never used in the presets (like this one) that I can only guess at the function. I did play test a few things but I assumed (I know, never assume) that Turn End meant the end of the turn and never tested this slot.

Thanks for pointing this out.

[Rodak]

Oh thank goodness it was not just me!

I've been on a roll of stupid oversights and mistakes lately.

Must be that Brainfart I had last week. Poo Gas takes a while to clear!

Thanks for the explanation. I found that one particularly frustrating as it seemed to run contrary to logic.

I look forward to an updated FAQ from you, as I am sure that any improvements will be as helpful as the 1st version.

Peace.

[Deleted]

I encountered something like this today too, and I'll share what I learned:

I'd made an effect a while ago that was supposed to be like the default Defend, it boosted their DEF significantly for 1 turn and one turn only, then came off. I made it custom from the ground up however like this:

The only script I had was a DEF boosted up with the Indirect Effect's Rate being the % boost of the DEF. I put it in the Turn End slot, but it didn't work at all and I wondered why. I pressed start on all the Indirect Effect's turn slots, put it in the Effect Start slot (the last one), and it worked. I'm not exactly sure what was happening but that solved my problem.

[Dungeon Warden]

Turn End in the Indirect Effect is at the actual end of the battle round, not at the end of the characters turn. Since the effect only lasts one turn, using the end of turn slot does no good, as the effect ends as soon as it starts.

[Rodak]

I can see why so many people complain about the difficulty of this game. It takes a certain type of mind to enjoy figuring something out that is difficult. A friend of mine gets headaches when I show him how some things are done in this game. Real headaches too, no exaggeration.

Turn End really should mean the same thing in both editors.

Blame it on translation. The Japanese language is created around a completely different world view and thought processes. It shows in translation. I wonder how they see it when English is translated into Japanese!

But learning these little details are what give a fuller understanding of the system and the ability to create what you want.

I still think it should be consistant, though.

Oh well. The world is rarely what I think it should be.

[Dungeon Warden]

If I remember right, the game was translated directly into English from the Japanese and then interpeted into plain English by the people at Agetec (Mostly by "Ascii" Dave). Because the people at Agetec didn't have time to figure out the game (It took me months to understand it), a lot of translation was done at face value and that is why much of the text doesn't fully explain that the item (variable, command, effect slot) actually does. There was some commuication between Agetec and Enterbrain about the main commands that everyone uses so that the translations would be correct, it is only when you dig into the guts of the system that you find that the help files are less then helpful.

[Rodak]

DungeonWarden said:

it is only when you dig into the guts of the system that you find that the help files are less then helpful.

But the guts are the best part! Especially deep-fried with a white wine sauce. Oh wait... that's antelope.

But seriously, I meant no disrespect to the folks who do the translation. I was only pointing out that such translations are far more difficult than, say, Spanish to English. Similiar roots and even thinking. Asian languages and thought are far more difficult to translate and those who actually do it professionally are very talented people indeed.