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Post by The Final Rune on Apr 1, 2007 21:13:45 GMT -5
[white]They are dead to me now. I'm not usually one to hold a grudge; hell, usually I forgive an offense in a matter of minutes. But, after their combined attacks on the hope and dreams of the RPG Maker Community I feel it is my resposibility to distance myself from them. As of this moment, I turn my back on the Pavilion and the RPGMMag, along with their respective moderators, Valk and Ixzion. Valk blatantly misled the entire community. Ixzion only compounded this offense with the lie about the 'next' RPG Maker. It's not funny, it's cruel and simply unaccecptable. Any and all future game material, map editor guide, or general advice or banter will never see light at either site. Both of these 'men' are supposed to be leaders. The high rank officials of the community, who we've been duped into trusting. I will remain here, at the Domain, a place that has never lied or misled me. Doan the Nado has always been a stand up supporter of the people and games for RPG Maker. Given the soon to be foreth coming release of my demo and the newly created online version of my Map Editor Guide I find this retreat from the site's of liars to be most well timed. You lied to me, you both. . . . . . . Okay, I guess I bitched long enough. Don't take any of this to seriously, I just needed to rant a little. [/white]
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Post by NASH7777 on Apr 1, 2007 21:25:39 GMT -5
I understand that you're upset. I called this the other day to Nathan and even posted on the pav that it was ironic that they'ld announce on April fool's day. So my hopes were'nt let down at all. Bleh*
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Post by realitybites on Apr 1, 2007 22:17:40 GMT -5
Ok this part right here really steams me. Valkysas said: if I my say so myself, didn't you say there was here? Notice the parts in bold print. WE referring to his "staff" as well as him. What you say Valk is malarky mate. Please, if you do a post, don't be a hypocrite. *Flame Shield on* sources here: PavThe Sham
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Post by doyleman on Apr 1, 2007 22:32:13 GMT -5
actually, he has done no wrong there. he summarizes in a post. i agree.
what steams me is that he did partake in the mag scam.
When said that it wasnt a april fools joke, then having the mag co op with them, i thought both were safe to presume as correct. If mad at anyone, I'd say mag.
but I dont want to start a war.... it's unneccessary.
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Valkysas
RPG Making Novice
Runs the Pav
Posts: 56
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Post by Valkysas on Apr 2, 2007 1:01:28 GMT -5
I didnt lie. With those bold statements, I actually could have taken a picture of RPG Maker 2 sitting on top of a Wii, and they would have been true.
I was incredibly careful in what I said.
We know what console it is for. = "it" being the ANNOUNCEMENT, not the GAME THAT I NEVER MENTIONED is for the PS3.
We know the game sharing method. = The whole announcement was about this. a new method to sharing games.
We know that the game creation method should be a little familiar if you've used RPG Maker 2. = it's familiar to uers of 1 and 3 too, since it's about those games.
I never said it was a new RPG Maker game or title. in other posts I flat out told people it wasnt a new RPG Maker, and that it wasnt RPG Maker 4 either.
People are mad because they were wrong about what "it" was. As Ixzion and Oblivion and countless others have said, I didnt lie. People just chose to interpret my words as something else. thats not my fault.
Yes, I went along with the mag joke. only fair as they built it off from my announcement. Since they did that, if I didnt go along with it, it would have been destroyed. I'm not gonna sabotage my friends and partners' april fool's joke.
again, this was an april fool's joke, for the mag. it wasnt for the pav. everything I posted in the teaser ended up being true if you read the topic "the announcement" (there's three of them, very hard to miss). I didnt lie.
Our april fool's joke at the pav was strange music, vowels being censored with the letter "d", and all intentional uses of the letter "d" turning into a picture of a minotaur. The announcement was never intended to be a joke, which is why I told people on the forum that it wasnt. I was just being vague in the teaser so no one could guess what it was, and it would be a suprise. people asked "why on april fool's day"? because I figured that YOU WOULDNT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY, and get all bent out of shape if you interpreted the teaser wrong.
I wanted it to be painfully obvious that it was a joke, even though it wasnt. I talked to most of the staff about it earlier in the week. I tried to make it look as joke-like as possible. So people would think "oh, what a lame joke, big news on april 1st, ha ha, try harder next time" and then the suprise was supposed to be that everything was true. Not an hour went by that I wasnt absolutely terrified because people were taking it seriously. if I had called it off at any moment and clarified what it actually was, (you know, somehow going further than me already telling people "its not a new RPG Maker" in a public forum) people still would have been mad at me, so I figured let it run, people would realize on sunday what day it was and no one would be mad.
My biggest mistake is thinking that people would look at a calendar.
as for the mag, yeah, they made stuff up. it was a joke. get over it. the entire RPG Maker community takes itself way too seriously at times, and me and ixzion just like joking around from time to time.
Not trying to start a flame war, or fight, or anything like that. just telling people what happened.
Just so you know, me and Ixzion have decided that even if we have legitimate news next year on april 1st, we're holding it until the 2nd, and not putting any teasers up either.
Happy Sunday, everyone. Now please, lighten up.
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Post by doyleman on Apr 2, 2007 1:40:41 GMT -5
I think everyone was well aware of the date, but it still kinda looked like you were going in co op with Ixzion, and if you said you werent pranking, it'd be a safe bet to assume ixz. wasnt either.
many roads split into many paths.... following every one of them would be too time consuming and pointless. (roads being assumptions...)
edit: I'm already kinda feeling lightened bout the whole thing... But I'm standing with what actions I've done.
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Post by thetruecoolness on Apr 2, 2007 3:41:25 GMT -5
Well I think getting terribly bent out of shape over this is not the correct reaction, however I was not happy that they went this far with the joke. I was not amused, and generally hate April Fools day, but then again I am normally a pretty serious person so.
All I know is I will never trust anything either one says on April 1st again, or at least wait until the next day to even care, certainly learned my lesson today. As for any other day of the week I'll probably be a little more skeptical. But I think to lose all trust in them after this would be a little unfair, though I can understand being guarded about trusting them for a while. I think both heads learned a valuable lesson about joking around about something as big as this with their respective communities. Quite a few people were genuinely upset over this, though they have let it go at least to some extent. Of course a lot of others found it funny as well, just like the AS April Fools, where half the anime fans were pissed, and the rest of the people thought it was funny.
So while I personally disagree strongly with the prank and the decision to do it, I'm not going to hate them forever for it because that would be a bit unfair. There will always be a point when someone is going to strike the wrong chord on you (that's life as they say, and if not then you get no real conversation as everyone will be too afraid to say anything), or vice versa, and I think it takes a bigger man to look past these small transgressions and look to what you've been through with that person in the past.
So in the end practical jokes are a big risk in my opinion, and I think can really undermine the trust built up in a relationship, dependent on size and frequency of them. I personally don't find them worth it, and I don't think this was quite as obvious as they thought it was, as of course when you are in on the joke you see all the signs, however when you're on the other side if you are not scrutinizing every bit of it, it's very likely to miss all the signs. So the things on the Pav were pretty good fun and obviously part of a prank (and kind of done before, so no big surprises there), but I think the announcement of a new RPG Maker was in bad taste, especially after being without one for so long.
I think what was missing was a lot of the fake announcement things magazines like GamePro and such have in their April issues. By all accounts the announcement looked very official, and besides the screenshots (which you would have had to have played RPG Maker 3 to get, or remember the official screens for it), I didn't see a whole lot of signs (yeah he said it was April First, but not everyone feels the need to pull a prank on that day). Also some people may not have caught the news until a couple days before, breaking the this wasn't sudden argument about it.
So in the end, I vote for the deletion of April Fools day as a holiday. Not because of this, just in general. It's a highly counter productive day, and leads to inefficiency caused by a break down of trust. So while it is kind of fun I guess, I think that's overweighed by the fact that no one can really trust anything said or shown on that day, given the perceived need to deceive. Really the funniest thing was people's overreaction to the overreaction to the joke. With some calling those people immature (as if their is an immature reaction to an April Fools prank, it already being fairly immature if we're going to go there), and lacking all sense of humor because they didn't find this one thing funny. So I would hope Ix did not think this would not piss anyone off, or looks like he got fooled today as well.
Oh and though you did apologize already Valk, just wanted to point out you did say this 'I assure you, it's not.' in response to 'Actually, that looks like RPGM3.' for the swirl screenshot. Though I guess that could have been from another game but I thought it was RPGM3. Of course you did follow with this 'I promise you that there will be a big announcement here on Sunday.
Whether people will like or care about what I have to say is unknown though.', strongly indicating against a new game. Just don't think it's fair to only say Ix and OW were responsible for it, though they do share the majority of the responsibility for the prank.
But I'm not really all that mad (not at all anymore), though saying I'm ok with it I think would be a stretch.
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Post by Rodak on Apr 2, 2007 4:21:45 GMT -5
... some people may not have caught the news until a couple days before, Like me! I made a return to this. I actually believed it. I'm not upset at all. I understand jokes and how they can go wrong. I don't approve of this one either, but April Fool's Day is Historically Significant and should stay! It was started by religious idiots who were making fun of the Pagans who still celebrated New Years on April 1st. Spring. New Beginning. They made fun of anyone who celebrated New Year's in April by calling them April Fools. The rest evolved from that. So... Let's keep April Fool's Day,, but limit our pranking to Religious Dogmatics!!!
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Valkysas
RPG Making Novice
Runs the Pav
Posts: 56
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Post by Valkysas on Apr 2, 2007 6:48:32 GMT -5
"How many people actually need PS3 version saves for RPG Maker 1 & 2?" at least 22, according to yesterday's download statistics. and a lot more in the future. this helps bring RPG Maker to a whole new audience, and to some people who havent been able to play the games for years thanks to their computers not getting along with the Dex Drive. It ensures that the games people have made for the past seven years won't become outdated and obsolete when the PS2 fades away. we're future-proofing our game library.
it's not pointless. its just not what you wanted it to be. I don't care. I made 22 people very happy yesterday, and my announcement will make more happy in the future.
I didnt do any fake screens. I didnt make any false declarations. everything I said came true. the "it" just wasnt what you thought it was.
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Valkysas
RPG Making Novice
Runs the Pav
Posts: 56
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Post by Valkysas on Apr 2, 2007 6:58:10 GMT -5
I accept responsibility for what I said, and what I did. not what people think I said.
If you don't want to accept responsibility for your own misinterpretations, why should I have to do it for you?
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Valkysas
RPG Making Novice
Runs the Pav
Posts: 56
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Post by Valkysas on Apr 2, 2007 7:05:20 GMT -5
I don't care if you boycott us. I'm just pointing out what I did, and the truth you don't want to accept.
You made a topic about me and my website over here, I have the right to respond to it. don't want me replying to a topic about me and my website? then don't make said topic in a public forum that I visit on a daily basis.
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Post by realitybites on Apr 2, 2007 7:24:59 GMT -5
There is an edit button you know, no need to triple post.
Edit by Doan: Not funny. Nice try, but that was uncalled for. Later edit: Sorry about that. I wasn't aware of what happened here.
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Post by The Final Rune on Apr 2, 2007 7:38:33 GMT -5
[white] seriously! Never let it be said that I can't take a joke! [/white]
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Post by realitybites on Apr 2, 2007 7:46:25 GMT -5
But you did lie, by saying false information about how you knew what console it was on and etc. And in my opinion I thought it was immature. You should grow up.
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Post by NASH7777 on Apr 2, 2007 7:58:37 GMT -5
No he didn't lie. He did something much worse. He deceived. Deceit is much worse because people get to try and brush off the blame saying that it's your fault you conjured false ideas; however, that isn't the case. I'd much rather Valk had straight up lied and then said april fool's, because this way he would get the blame he deserves for deceiving an entire board of devout members and enthusiasts, instead of the "oh I didn't lie; you tricked yourselves" bull****. Whether he lies or deceives he is still responsible for the blame in my book. I'm not upset personally over the whole matter, but I am disappointed in staff due to the fact so many people got there hopes up. The moment people started getting their hopes up the staff should have thought about their feelings and have given a few more details. They didn't. They wronged their members and the whole rpg maker community as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by doyleman on Apr 2, 2007 9:49:11 GMT -5
damien, did you miss my post?!
YOU MISINTERPRETED WHAT HE SAID!
There is no wrong in what he did. Read it over, again, and think about what he's saying. The pronouns used throws it off a little, but you'll see that he didn't lie anywhere.
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Valkysas
RPG Making Novice
Runs the Pav
Posts: 56
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Post by Valkysas on Apr 2, 2007 9:57:23 GMT -5
"But you did lie, by saying false information about how you knew what console it was on and etc. And in my opinion I thought it was immature. You should grow up." No, I didnt lie. I said I knew what console the announcement was for. it was for the PS3.
Oh well, You're making this out to be much larger and much worse than it actually is. if you decide not to come to the pav anymore because you can't understand what both me and doyleman are trying to say, then that doesnt bother me at all. We've made it seven years without you so far, I think we'll manage.
"There is an edit button you know, no need to triple post. " Oh, how very clever. removing posts to try and make me look stupid. I bow to the master.
"Whether he lies or deceives he is still responsible for the blame in my book." Meh. I publicly said it wasnt a new RPG Maker, and people chose to ignore that. it can't be helped.
I never said what the "it" was. In other topics about the announcement, I said that it wasnt a new RPG Maker, AND Not RPG Maker 4. I told people straight up that it wasnt a new RPG Maker, no deceptive word usage, no being vague about it. THIS WAS IGNORED BY EVERYONE.
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Post by doyleman on Apr 2, 2007 10:09:39 GMT -5
true, in the General Help forum (I think), he said 'who said anything about a new rpg maker?'. a couple days before the announcement came.
*shrug* I'm gonna stay outta this.
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Post by NASH7777 on Apr 2, 2007 10:12:27 GMT -5
Meh. I publicly said it wasnt a new RPG Maker, and people chose to ignore that. it can't be helped. It can't be helped eh? I doubt that. You know what you did. I stated how I felt on the thing, so did some other members. That's fine to each his own. I thought the situation was handled in poor taste but whatever. Let's just keep this topic to how we feel about what happened: shocked, confused, dissapointed, upset, whatever This topic will not turn into an argument, but people are free to express what they felt of the situation and Valk is fully welcome to express his feelings on any allegations someone accuses of him. You my edit to add information to this topic; however, don't edit after someone has posted after you for obvious reasons. Violators will be reprimanded in some way...
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Valkysas
RPG Making Novice
Runs the Pav
Posts: 56
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Post by Valkysas on Apr 2, 2007 10:18:29 GMT -5
"It can't be helped eh? I doubt that." What could I have done? I said it wasnt a new RPG Maker, and that didnt work.
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Post by NASH7777 on Apr 2, 2007 10:21:38 GMT -5
I'm not saying it was all your fault Valk, part of it is the medium. Like high school one thing gets started and by the end of the day it's completely something else. I just thought the whole thing was in poor taste. And it was allowed to evolve too much. Don't worry about it. Not too many people are terrible upset over it don't think.
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Valkysas
RPG Making Novice
Runs the Pav
Posts: 56
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Post by Valkysas on Apr 2, 2007 10:26:28 GMT -5
Oh, I definately agree it got out of hand. I tried my best to make it look painfully obvious that something was off about the announcement (Ixzion did too!), and it didnt work. If I had to do it over again, I wouldnt dare touch it. ... My biggest regret though, is that I didnt get a similar response for the burlap pavilion last year.
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Post by Doan the Nado on Apr 2, 2007 11:46:48 GMT -5
Again, why is this topic here? Any time there is some dispute at the Pavilion, people feel the need to come talk about it here. Aside from that, it was April Fools' Day. While I can appreciate some of the points that TTC makes, the fact remains that everyone should be prepared to brush off "major announcements" on that day, no matter who is saying it. Even a major company like Google makes crazy announcements on April 1. I see no wrong in what was done. It doesn't mean that I would do it, but I do not feel harmed in the least over a little fun. This thread better not turn into another war, or I might consider more drastic action than I have in the past.
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Ixzion
RPG Making Novice
Runs the Mag
Posts: 62
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Post by Ixzion on Apr 2, 2007 12:29:09 GMT -5
I'm here to take my blame. It's amazing to me to see how much people are mad at Valk over me, the one who set up the fake pictures, said I had media on the next RM, and everything else.
To his announcement, everyone ASSUMED that "it" was about the next RPG Maker. Then OW and I ran with the thought of "what if it really was the next RM?" and created the Mag's prank.
If I lied about something this big on any other day, everyone would be well-justified in wanting my head, so to speak. But it appears to me that a few people woke up on April 1, April Fool's Day, and decided to act like nothing was going to happen today.
I swore up and down that everyone would think that a big message coming on April 1 would be BS and snipe it as such. And I really figured that everyone was just going along with it after in some threads, people posted doubts about it.
Much like Valk, even if I get RPG Maker information straight from Agetec saying "PLEASE POST THIS EXTREMELY AWESOME INFORMATION NOW" on March 31 for posting on April 1, I won't post it. I will post no RPG Maker news of any kind on April 1 (April 2 in Japan) anymore.
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Post by BloodKnight on Apr 2, 2007 13:45:08 GMT -5
*sigh*
I believe I have to say something here, even if it has already been repeated.
Valkysas did not lie about the April 1 announcement. He didn't deceive anyone. You know what he did? He made an announcement about a special day, which was IMO, TOO open to interpretation. The result? Most of the community thought a new RPG Maker was on the horizon. Even though Valk hinted at the fact that "it's not called RPG Maker 4" and others, people let the hope of a newer, better looking, next-generation RPG Maker cloud their judgement.
To be honest, I was fooled also, I hoped that a new RPG Tsukuru was coming. I mean, how could you not, when the Mag decided to take things further and actually TRIED to trick people into thinking there WAS a new RPG Tsukuru coming? But then, you'd have to think here. Why isn't there news from other sources about this? You'd think that if there were screenshots from at the very least a beta version, more people would know(including IGNorant, with their screenie stealing), or that there'd be new entries in online store databases about a new RPG Maker. Or even Enterbrain or an agetec rep confirming it. Even RPG Tsukuru 5 was traceable way before a US release was announced.
The difference between me and probably, everyone else, was that I couldn't care much for it. And once the dissapointment came, I was like "Whatever."
Some of you need to grow the [expletive deleted] up, build a bridge over your river of tears and get the [expletive deleted] over it. The outrage over this has fell below the level of whining. 5 year old children(barring the simpleness of simple man at the Pavilion). I thought at least more of us would be older than such.
If a new RPG Maker meant that much, go and make your own RPG on a currently capable system, like Game Maker. God forbid one would have to extend their knowledge of game making past a console development suite. It's a tough road, but a rewarding one.
Sorry if that was a bit harsh Doan, but I had to get it out.
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